Russian President Vladimir Putin promised Friday to "immediately" order a ceasefire in Ukraine and start negotiations if Kyiv began withdrawing troops from the four regions annexed by Moscow in 2022 and renounced plans to join NATO. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejected what he called an ultimatum by Putin to surrender more territory.
The point is that many people caught up in the propaganda seem perfectly happy to let an infinite number of Ukrainians die for their project. It’s apparently very important to fight Russia with life and life (Ukrainian), but not so important that they’d take any risk themselves whatsoever. It speaks to both the dehumanization of the Ukrainian people, of treating them like fictional heroes rather than conscripts pushed around by larger forces, as well as the implicit sociopathy of the armchair warhawk. The hope, of course, is that the inconsistency prompts someone to actually question their own inconsistencies, as most people don’t think of themselves as warhawks or several times more human than a Ukrainian.
Though there are some other incorrect lines of thought in your comment.
Why wouldn’t you argue for the aggressor to leave?
That is not a human on this Lemmy server who can think and respond to the point. And even if you were in the room with some powerful person with the capacity to personally impact the outcome, your request would mean nothing because that’s not how geopolitics work.
These are not comparable things. Instead, this rhetoric is a thought-terminating cliche intended to recenter The Bad Guy ™ rather than address the point made.
Seems kind of backwards to tell the country that was invaded to roll over and just give up to its fascist neighbor.
Who is talking to countries? We are people talking to one another.
You are very happy to let Ukrainians ve slaughtered by Putin. Everyone can see whaz instance you are on. Stop acting like you care about Ukraine. Your whole instance is full of licking Putins ass. Giving the genocidal dictator a part of the country with the people he all wants to murder is the worst outcome.
You are very happy to let Ukrainians ve slaughtered by Putin.
Please don’t invent positions on my behalf. I would prefer Ukrainians to live, thanks. My position prioritizes the common people of Ukraine over the interests of larger powers.
Everyone can see whaz instance you are on.
And?
Stop acting like you care about Ukraine. Your whole instance is full of licking Putins ass.
You are inventing fantasies rather than address the realities of what I’m saying. Please return to a real world discourse.
Giving the genocidal dictator a part of the country with the people he all wants to murder is the worst outcome.
Puting is just the head of a faction. It’s best not to focus too much on him, as you will risk falling for the false understanding that is Great Man Theory. If Putin died tomorrow, Russian policy would be very similar to what it is today, same as if Biden or Zelensky died. These are people whose power and actions depend on larger systems, not just personal whims.
That said I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Which people do you think Putin wants to murder? The people of the Donbas?
The point is that many people caught up in the propaganda seem perfectly happy to let an infinite number of Ukrainians die for their project. It’s apparently very important to fight Russia with life and life (Ukrainian), but not so important that they’d take any risk themselves whatsoever. It speaks to both the dehumanization of the Ukrainian people, of treating them like fictional heroes rather than conscripts pushed around by larger forces, as well as the implicit sociopathy of the armchair warhawk. The hope, of course, is that the inconsistency prompts someone to actually question their own inconsistencies, as most people don’t think of themselves as warhawks or several times more human than a Ukrainian.
Though there are some other incorrect lines of thought in your comment.
That is not a human on this Lemmy server who can think and respond to the point. And even if you were in the room with some powerful person with the capacity to personally impact the outcome, your request would mean nothing because that’s not how geopolitics work.
These are not comparable things. Instead, this rhetoric is a thought-terminating cliche intended to recenter The Bad Guy ™ rather than address the point made.
Who is talking to countries? We are people talking to one another.
Thanks for addressing a lot of things I let slide for the sake of a good discussion, and thanks for doing it far more succinctly than I could’ve.
Glad I could be helpful!
You are very happy to let Ukrainians ve slaughtered by Putin. Everyone can see whaz instance you are on. Stop acting like you care about Ukraine. Your whole instance is full of licking Putins ass. Giving the genocidal dictator a part of the country with the people he all wants to murder is the worst outcome.
Please don’t invent positions on my behalf. I would prefer Ukrainians to live, thanks. My position prioritizes the common people of Ukraine over the interests of larger powers.
And?
You are inventing fantasies rather than address the realities of what I’m saying. Please return to a real world discourse.
Puting is just the head of a faction. It’s best not to focus too much on him, as you will risk falling for the false understanding that is Great Man Theory. If Putin died tomorrow, Russian policy would be very similar to what it is today, same as if Biden or Zelensky died. These are people whose power and actions depend on larger systems, not just personal whims.
That said I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Which people do you think Putin wants to murder? The people of the Donbas?