If you are keeping score at home, you have surely noticed that the two most important defense officials in Benjamin Netanyahu’s war cabinet — Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and the former military chief of staff Benny Gantz — warned last week that Netanyahu is leading Israel into a disastrous abyss by refusing to present any plan for non-Hamas Palestinians to govern Gaza and appears to be contemplating a long-term Israeli military occupation of Gaza instead. Gantz said he would leave the government if there was no plan by June 8.
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“Netanyahu’s acquiescence to the extreme right, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, has generally been seen as motivated out of his need to keep his coalition together and himself out of jail,” Friedman told me. “Now it seems that he has willingly sold his soul to the extreme right. One explanation is that the extreme religious right projects a Messianic image onto him that corresponds with his own sense of having been called to save Israel and the Jewish people. He has a plan for the day after and it’s very clear to anyone who listens: ‘Total victory’ — and eventually the return of Jewish settlement there. Israel is on the way to reoccupying Gaza.”
If that happens, Israel will become an international pariah and Jewish institutions everywhere will be torn between Jews who will feel the need to defend Israel — right or wrong — and those who, with their kids, will find it indefensible.
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So Biden is essentially a dead man walking? No matter how much it terrifies me, I just don’t see him winning through all these disputes while the right is unified. This is exactly what they needed, and the right is exactly what Israel needs. What are we to do, the American People, when we’re caught in the crossfire?
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The more I learn about this timeline, the darker our future becomes.
Oh man that’s a statement that just barely scratches the surface.
As someone that has bounced around from politics, to advanced earth sciences, to the arts and now just keeps learning new things because I can’t help it… Yeah, things aren’t looking so good.
Humans will prevail and all that but we are slamming head first into a wall of spikes that is going to be and already is starting to be a giant crushing destructionary force for all of what we think of as normal.
Everyone hates the people calling for change when they feel comfortable where it is but if you are calling for change to go backwards to when you felt even more comfortable somehow that always wins, and we go barreling towards fascism from it.
Come senators, congressmen, please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway, don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt will be he who has stalled
The battle outside ragin’
Will soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times, they are a-changin’The first cause of the left must always be domestic anti fascism. Not out of a nationalistic sense, but out of raw practicality. When fascists gain power everything else we believe in is thrown away
What are we to do?
Vote for Biden. He’s no guarantee for the Palestinians, that is true. The alternative is confirmed annihilation of Palestinians and Ukrainians, as well as occupation of Taiwan.
And click one more ratchet to the right.
They don’t need to beat us, y’all are slowly but surely doing that for them
Yeah. Just another little step.
The question is: Is there a legitimate other option?
No fantasy perfect scenario world, or all people being made to be better and more caring. As is, can we come up with a solution, a driving force, even a solid nudge to alter course and direction, so that this impact doesn’t slam into us no matter what, accepting that the inertia is already behind it.
I say this fully knowing that Biden does little other than to appease the upper class corporate interests that be and keep everything feeling on track so that it feels like someone else’s problem to anyone above it.
But fuck me, I can’t think of an out that doesn’t involve fantastical imagination at this point.
Like the violent revolution of the progressives against a Trump-run government, through the masses of militant local and state police officers, and bloodthirsty and loyal right wingers?
Extremist progressives certainly aren’t the mathematicians of the left.
“After
HitlerTrump, our turn.”I mean historically we can see how well the people rise up to stop the national Fascist party.
People like money and feeling comfortable and it doesn’t matter how many necks must be stepped on for most.
We over assume that the empathetic humans are the ones that make up the majority. We are right they are mostly non violent but people are easy to turn a blind eye.
So yeah, can’t expect that so what can we do? I’m at bake cakes and see if I ever get a chance to kill a Nazi and be put to the firing squad.
I’ll get banned for this but we need to show up at Trump’s shit and boo him and demand he be thrown in jail, he needs extreme heat and the same right wing tactics shoved up his ass. We also need to put aside our differences as leftists and decide what is more important: keeping Trump at bay or stopping Israeli support. If you chose one right now, the other doesn’t happen. We are in the most fucked up situation. I don’t blame people for rejecting it and wanting different options. But what they need to realize is Biden can be held accountable even if he wins this election. Trump will make sure nobody in power is ever held accountable again.
He would be ruthlessly lambasted as an antisemite by the AIPAC-endorsed left and all of the right, and lose the Jewish vote in every swing state, handing the election to Trump in a landslide.
Instead, he’s getting ruthlessly lambasted as a genocider by significant Muslim populations in swing states, losing their vote, and handing the election to Trump in the Electoral College.
Yep, so now you see why he’s not budging. He loses either way. My guess is he’s trying to thread the needle by counting on the Jewish, pro-Israel voting block being more valuable (i.e. larger) than the pro-Palestine left wing. Could also be that he knows Trump presents an existential crisis not just for everyone on the left, but also for many center-right voters who are already talking about swinging for Biden. He might (or might not) have good reason to. More likely, I think, he’s counting on the fact that young people care more about Gaza than old people, and young people consistently have the lowest turnout of any age group. It’s a hedge, to be sure, but apparently one they think they have to make.
And in the meantime children die. What a stupid world.
I didn’t say it was fair or good. Just that this is the situation we find ourselves in.
I know enough history to be used to not being able to vote not to kill children.
If I were presented with a choice to murder a child to avoid 100% certain nuclear Armageddon, I would murder the child. If I were presented with a choice to murder a child to avoid 1% certain nuclear Armageddon, I probably wouldn’t. Where the rest of us fall between those extremes is up for debate, and it seems to me like that’s how the administration is rationalizing it. Apparently to them the stakes (for the whole world) are just too high to change course.
I’d kill a kid to save an undetermined amount of people, but I would have the decency to kill myself as well
This has been clear from the start. Netanyahu has spit in the face of Biden time and time again, taking US tax dollars and using it as he sees fit. Trump won’t even require Netanyahu to spit!
Hmmm I wonder why he would prefer Trump?? Where are all those enlightened Leftists saying they’re gonna sit out this election? Are you making the both sides argument? Or are you willing to admit that voting for a guy you don’t agree with 100% (Biden) is better for your causes than letting Trump win?
Why is your first reaction to attack the left, when the right is standing in front of you?
Because the right isn’t hem-hawing around and are all in-line behind Trump. The left they’re talking about are the ones sowing division, banging the drum on the left-side wedge issues, and encouraging apathy / vote 3rd party / sit out the vote. Some of those are shills, sure, but not all.
IMO, it’s perfectly reasonable to call those people out because they’re completely missing the bigger picture.
There is division within the ranks of the right as well. There are protest votes upwards near 20% in the Republican primary in some states, even when there is nobody running against Trump. I understand things are dire, but the Democratic party can win this election. I am far further to the left than the Democrats are, but will still vote for them in the elections to buy time. We must believe in ourselves, and I think lashing out against the far left is detrimental to the cause. It is fair to confront those who are adamant about sitting out elections, but the conversation to mobilize the far left pragmatically must be tactful and not full of hate.
We’ve been buying time my entire adult life, short of first term Obama, I voted for him because I thought he would do good.
When are they going to start doing something other than pretending to listen?
The hard truth is that to get a leftist government we, you and I, and others, have to do more than vote. We still need to vote because it is an avenue given to us. A free lever. But we need to become active locally. In tenant unions, in local leftist groups. We have to organize and this takes time. Do not vote and pray, vote and then act.
I’ve done shit like that, I’ve called representatives, fuck sake I have tried multiple times to get a union started in a red state.
I still am, but damn it I am almost completely burnt out
You have to be a reliable constituent and help them get elected. Young people, progressives, leftists, whatever aren’t reliable enough and don’t vote in numbers significant enough to shift the Overton window significantly in a short time frame. Since they aren’t reliable voters the candidate has to go farther to the right to get the votes they need to get elected.
Slow progress is the best you can hope for when you’re hoping for extreme change to a system, and you can’t stop because if you do a single Republican win can undo years of progress (e.g. Trump with the supreme court nominee and Roe).
Another issue is progressives are really spread thin on issues from civil rights, to economics, to foreign relations, to gun rights, you get the picture. This big tent brings in a lot of people, but some people get pushed out when you bring them in. For example many Latino voters are Catholic and are anti-LGBTQ and anti abortion. They have to decide if they care more about the inclusion the Democratic party brings, or the abortion restrictions the Republicans bring.
All of that to say progressives a often single issue abstainers; they will abstain from voting over a single trigger issue. The more issues a candidate has to support the less likely it is the candidate will support that voters trigger issue to the degree the voter wants. Now that voter is staying home and not voting, which leads to the point I made earlier.
Also we have made a lot of progress. Gay marriage is legal now, people are much more aware of racism and other discrimination and we’re taking active steps to combat it, the ACA has helped with medical coverage a ton, the general population are aware Palestinians exist and Israel isn’t the good guy, we’ve installed an amazing amount of green electricity power plants, bike and public transportation are things people want now, and many other incremental improvements.
Things aren’t perfect, and some things are still fucked, but we’re getting better. We can’t stop because it isn’t going exactly the way we want it to.
The left is very prominent on the Fediverse. The right is (thankfully) almost nonexistent.
If their post is meant to persuade a super-minority of US political types (the far left) by talking down to them on a niche social media website, they are not doing a very good job. This is not how you convince people to join you. Then again, maybe they have no intention of doing this, and just want to lash out at anyone who will listen.
Dems:Treat every actual leftist as an enemy, denigrate them, blame them for any wrongs, refuse to acknowledge their concerns, refuse to support any of their positions
Also Dems: “why won’t they just shut up and vote for the person we tell them too? clearly it’s the leftists fault for being unreasonable!”
Tensions are high and they are understandably panicked. Have open conversations with them in good faith. It is the only way forward.
I agree with the sentiment but it’s more like:
Dems: There’s no way we’ll get single payer universal healthcare passed because other humans exist and they have the right to vote, but we can do the ACA and try again in a few years
Leftists: Stop fucking compromising with facists you capitalist piece of shit. Just make them do what we want. I’m never voting for a Democrat in my entire life ever again
They’re addressing those that propose abstaining from voting because of Biden’s support of Israel. That is exactly what it takes for Trump to take office and help Netanyahu turn Gaza and Rafah into parking lots.
Biden is already letting them, his big red line was Rafah and yet he didn’t stop them, hell he’s okay with it after they started bombing safe zones again now.
Typically because we expect fascists to support other fascists. It’s when leftist supports fascist that we get annoyed.
I understand your view, though I see those who do refuse to pull the levers of democracy as misguided and self-destructive rather than overtly and explicitly “supporting fascism.” Convince them to pull the levers they are given, rather than lash out at them. Humans who are confronted with negativity and accusatory language will only back further into their corners and pull out their fists.
this is some “debate me debate me” shit we had a discussion over whether trump was bad in 2015, he is, and now that discussion is over we had a discussion of alternatives to trump that can actually get elected and now that discussion is over we do not need to wipe these people’s asses for them any more than we need to wipe the asses of young earth creationists, the debate is over, the correct response to “i am wrong but what if we had a centrist and polite discussion forever” is “no” and the correct response to “but i want to” is “shut up dumbass”
You are not helping your case. I won’t hold your words against those that are serious about doing good.
find the factual inaccuracy, civilityboi
Because it’s those less than intelligent leftists who are saying they won’t vote in this election. I expect the right wing to show up and get behind their guy. I’m disappointed that the left seems to be willing to hand them this election
A fascist siding with a fascist. Never seen that one coming.
BB has always been Trump’s buddy, that was never a question.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
If you are keeping score at home, you have surely noticed that the two most important defense officials in Benjamin Netanyahu’s war cabinet — Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and the former military chief of staff Benny Gantz — warned last week that Netanyahu is leading Israel into a disastrous abyss by refusing to present any plan for non-Hamas Palestinians to govern Gaza and appears to be contemplating a long-term Israeli military occupation of Gaza instead.
Here are the stakes for America in what these ministers are saying: Netanyahu has become a radical actor, undermining key U.S. interests and Arab allies, and becoming the gift that keeps on giving for Iran.
And yet, because Netanyahu’s far-right coalition partners want to annex Gaza — and their votes can keep him in office and out of jail if he is convicted in his corruption trials — Bibi is singing their line that Hamas and Fatah are the same.
(This is the most important dynamic going on now, and the decision by the International Criminal Court to seek arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant and the leaders of Hamas on charges of war crimes only strengthens Bibi at home and deflects attention from this.)
Worse, too many Israelis are buying Netanyahu’s nonsensical argument, and too few opposition leaders — including Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot — are standing up and clearly rejecting it.
And unfortunately, I don’t think President Biden fully understands his “old friend” Bibi, whose government is the first to ever formally declare annexation of the West Bank as its goal and actually tried to strip the Supreme Court of its power to stop it.
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