• SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Correct, if those differences are irreconcilable. I can ally with lefties that want slightly different things, but “America is evil therefore Stalin wasn’t that bad” is not someone grounded in reality.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      Don’t take this as Stalin defending, but if you are trying to accomplish movements to the Left and both Person A and Person B want Worker Ownership of the Means of Production, and Person C wants literal fascism, is Person B being a Stalin defender worth creating a 3 way battle when people who identify with C far outnumber A and B combined currently? That seems to go against what is strategically necessary in the US, at least.

      I think it’s more important to build a cohesive worker movement that’s as large as possible before we move on to discussing Marxism vs Anarchism vs some other flavor of Leftism, at least in the US.

      • Bojimbo@kbin.social
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        6 months ago

        History shows that allying with authoritarians rarely works out for those who don’t want authoritarianism.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          6 months ago

          Sure. But if you have to pick between a 3 way fight and a 2 way fight, it is easier to convince someone with 94% shared views while allying with them than it is to win a 3 way fight.

          A united front is the only way to get Socialism in the US.

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Yeah because it’s historically been REALLY easy to get rid of authoritarian allies once a semblance of victory is achieved 🙄

            Also, for a left libertarian (aka an anti-authoritarian leftist), the authoritarianism itself is a huge part of the problem.

            Personally, I’m not a fan of people being murdered for trying to unionize like fascists would, but I’m also not a fan of people being murdered for NOT unionizing like stalinists would.

            • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              On the nose! Capitalism always devolves to authoritarian or fascistic systems when left to it’s own devices. Broken by anticompetitive behavior. And Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism start there. Going from one to the other is a lateral move. Their benefits and faults are oddly similar. Despite how vehemently they despise each other. The authoritarian nature is the fault. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              6 months ago

              I don’t think you’ll find many people advocating for either of those positions outside the most fringe of fringe.

              • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Clearly you’ve not met a lot of tankies.

                Not to worry though: since you’re on Lemmy you’re bound to meet far too many of them sooner rather than later!

      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Person B want Worker Ownership of the Means of Production, and Person C wants literal fascism

        Person B being a Stalin defender

        They’re the same picture /s

        But seriously, the only reason Stalin’s USSR wasn’t “fascist” is because fascism is explicitly a right aligned ideology, but it was essentially fascist in practice. His whole thing was totalitarian rule and blaming enemies of the state for any shortcomings, which is just fascism with a coat of paint.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          6 months ago

          I’m not disagreeing with you here on whether or not the USSR is good or bad, that’s not my point.

          My point is that if both person A and person B want worker ownership and person C wants a dictatorship of Capitalism, then person A and B should ally, even if temporarily.

          • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Person B is also a fascist, and should be let nowhere near power because they will purge person A the first second they can.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              6 months ago

              Even if they want 94% of the same things?

              We aren’t talking about MAGA Communists or PatSocs.

              • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Let’s say you and I align politically 99%. Our only point of contention is that I want to kill or jail you specifically. Are you going to ally with me and hope I change my mind later?

                This is exaggerated to make a point, not a direct analogy.