President Joe Biden’s support for the Israeli military offensive in Gaza mixed with student anger over police crackdowns on anti-war campus protests are complicating the work of Democratic youth groups trying to engage classmates and other Generation Z voters ahead of this year’s election.
Unpopular opinion: if you require disenfranchised voters to stave off a fascist dictatorship then you’re already a failed state and are only kicking the can down the road.
There are probably a lot of people you love who require healthcare who are depending on that can being kicked further down the road until you have an alternative.
I personally think we can support Palestine without throwing our trans and gay populations, our immigrants, and our leftists to the wolves.
That’s the thing. We aren’t getting an alternative. We’re getting fascism. Whether we slowly slide into it with the Democrats or speed run it with the Republicans we will have to deal with the issue.
obviously a slow slide gives people time to leave and it offers more chances for the fascist factions to cannibalize each other. From a strategic perspective you never go with the quick option unless you think you can win the fight quickly.
At this point I despair of winning this fight at all. As long as Amazon Prime Video keeps it’s ads short enough, most people aren’t even going to notice the cops turning ever more into a paramilitary force. The list of rights SCOTUS has broken for the cops during my lifetime is frankly amazing. Not one right from the 1st to the 8th is enforceable in our courts. You can’t even protest without getting beat by the police. That fact alone should have the entire country in the streets.
We’re already hemmed in, the alarms are already going off and the collective response is to just vote for the guy who lets the fascists organize for a few more years. We’re already fucked, the goose was cooked in 2020 and we couldn’t see it because Obama did actually try and none of us imagined Biden would just… not.
That doesn’t mean roll over, it means get angry, get in the streets, demand your rights, demand a government that does more than rule by cruelty or rule by coin.
“And the other thing is I hate, they put out tapes all the time. Every night, they’re releasing tapes of a building falling down. They shouldn’t be releasing tapes like that. They’re doing, that’s why they’re losing the PR war. They, Israel is absolutely losing the PR war,” Trump said.
No. This isn’t what we have, this is what the wealthy elite have. We’re not making do, we’re drowning. We’ve been drowning. But everyone ignored the warnings so here we are.
humans have been making do with much less than what you have for hundreds of thousands of years. making do also does not necessarily exclude political action
That’s right up there with, “better clean that plate, there’s starving kids in China!”
It’s that very history you mention that tells me it’s time to stop supporting weak Democrats. Either we get someone strong enough to pull us back from the abyss or we’re already fucked. This story has played out time and again from the Roman Empire to Post Colonial Africa. The compromise guy is put in charge and the authoritarian runs him over.
years ago, i lived in a community where someone had spray-painted the dumpster. it said something like “tear it all down and start over.” i endorsed that at the time.
now i am way too invested in way too many people to see it go down like that.
Right. So maybe you should look at everything else they have done as president and realize there’s a lot more at stake in this election.
you mean like voting against gay marriage; lgbt in the military & federal service and then only changing his mind LONG after lgbt people fought against him and now their issues have popular support?
or maybe it’s forcing permanent student loan debt; disabling bankruptcy protections and imprisoning immigrants fleeing persecution that you like?
Honestly not sure the situation for immigrants is that much better under Biden. Especially with the immigration bill from earlier in the year they tried to pass and the It Could Happen Here episodes about the border conditions under Biden. At least during Trump’s term there were news reports and people were more active giving aid.
Really? Deporting adults and keeping their children in ICE detention centers only to physically and sexually abuse them is better? Trump was a monster to immigrants. We had nations around the world criticizing the crisis and crimes against humanity at our border.
I’m glad Biden ended family separation and has increased electronic monitoring over detention. Unfortunately, tons of people are still in abusive privately run immigration prisons. Many are dying during border crossings. Plenty of kids who immigrated are laboring in meat packing plants.
Biden continues many of Trump’s awful policies, but because he does it in a quieter, more respectable tone he receives less backlash. The lack of support people get from us is stark and the abolish ICE movement has withering away.
Both these situations are bad. I think my point is less about the election and more that we collectively should do something about these conditions. Mutual aid, volunteer, harass a representative, just something.
You’re forgetting about the year and a half long open border policy after Biden repealed Title 42, while pressing Congress to do their job and enact immigration reform. The only reason he restricted immigration was after receiving pressure from sanctuary cities. The president shouldn’t be enacting Executive Orders to control the border. That is a direct result of the failure of Congress.
They’ll have plenty of opportunities for pithy comments when Trump helps eradicate Palestine and Ukraine while tailoring the US for straight, rich, white, Christian Americans.
And the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primary will have plenty of opportunities to claim there was nothing wrong with knowingly voting for a candidate they knew would be unpopular with people they were depending on in the general election.
I considered America a failed state 25 years ago, based on nothing but the last century of modern history, from textbooks — before 9/11, 20 years and trillions of dollars bombing the middle east to ((surrender)), the GFC, surveillance capitalism, citizens united, the rise of Trump and unadulterated fascism, etc, etc.
Guess what the last 25 years has taught me? A majority of humanity are entirely incapable of seeing beyond what’s directly and immediately in front of them! But sure… The people who saw this happening in slow motion, decades ago, are the problem! Whatever helps you sleep at night is all that matters.
People acting like if Biden wins, Trump will magically disappear and another even more insane republican won’t immediately take his place and threaten democracy again.
I honestly think this is the closest to perfect time for the DNC to split and make a new party. They can easily start with at least 30-40 house members and maybe a few senators. The majority of young voters would probably opt to vote for them.
Suddenly they’d be forced to do coalitions to keep doing things, and republicans would lose voter base so fast they might even split themselves.
Yes and in many of them when one whole side of the political spectrum is united , the other side loses badly. The American right wing has abysmally low expectations from their politicians and they fall in line anyways. It’ll happen again.
Unpopular opinion: if you require disenfranchised voters to stave off a fascist dictatorship then you’re already a failed state and are only kicking the can down the road.
There are probably a lot of people you love who require healthcare who are depending on that can being kicked further down the road until you have an alternative.
I personally think we can support Palestine without throwing our trans and gay populations, our immigrants, and our leftists to the wolves.
That’s the thing. We aren’t getting an alternative. We’re getting fascism. Whether we slowly slide into it with the Democrats or speed run it with the Republicans we will have to deal with the issue.
obviously a slow slide gives people time to leave and it offers more chances for the fascist factions to cannibalize each other. From a strategic perspective you never go with the quick option unless you think you can win the fight quickly.
At this point I despair of winning this fight at all. As long as Amazon Prime Video keeps it’s ads short enough, most people aren’t even going to notice the cops turning ever more into a paramilitary force. The list of rights SCOTUS has broken for the cops during my lifetime is frankly amazing. Not one right from the 1st to the 8th is enforceable in our courts. You can’t even protest without getting beat by the police. That fact alone should have the entire country in the streets.
We’re already hemmed in, the alarms are already going off and the collective response is to just vote for the guy who lets the fascists organize for a few more years. We’re already fucked, the goose was cooked in 2020 and we couldn’t see it because Obama did actually try and none of us imagined Biden would just… not.
Ok, but like, no.
Convincing argument.
This one’s better?
That doesn’t mean roll over, it means get angry, get in the streets, demand your rights, demand a government that does more than rule by cruelty or rule by coin.
What are you doing to deal with it?
Protest, work to get other people elected.
If you think Trump is going to save a single Palestinian, I hope you succeed in getting him elected.
We just won’t read about it any more.
then make do with what you’ve got
No. This isn’t what we have, this is what the wealthy elite have. We’re not making do, we’re drowning. We’ve been drowning. But everyone ignored the warnings so here we are.
humans have been making do with much less than what you have for hundreds of thousands of years. making do also does not necessarily exclude political action
That’s right up there with, “better clean that plate, there’s starving kids in China!”
It’s that very history you mention that tells me it’s time to stop supporting weak Democrats. Either we get someone strong enough to pull us back from the abyss or we’re already fucked. This story has played out time and again from the Roman Empire to Post Colonial Africa. The compromise guy is put in charge and the authoritarian runs him over.
… so let’s just speedrun it?
years ago, i lived in a community where someone had spray-painted the dumpster. it said something like “tear it all down and start over.” i endorsed that at the time.
now i am way too invested in way too many people to see it go down like that.
Let’s not run it. Let’s march in the streets instead.
And Trump will improve that how? We already know he’ll make everything else worse.
Oh he won’t. But neither will Biden.
Right. So maybe you should look at everything else they have done as president and realize there’s a lot more at stake in this election.
I have considered it.
you mean like voting against gay marriage; lgbt in the military & federal service and then only changing his mind LONG after lgbt people fought against him and now their issues have popular support?
or maybe it’s forcing permanent student loan debt; disabling bankruptcy protections and imprisoning immigrants fleeing persecution that you like?
Hitler isn’t so bad if you overlook the Holocaust. He did build the autobahn after all.
Honestly not sure the situation for immigrants is that much better under Biden. Especially with the immigration bill from earlier in the year they tried to pass and the It Could Happen Here episodes about the border conditions under Biden. At least during Trump’s term there were news reports and people were more active giving aid.
Really? Deporting adults and keeping their children in ICE detention centers only to physically and sexually abuse them is better? Trump was a monster to immigrants. We had nations around the world criticizing the crisis and crimes against humanity at our border.
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/ice-detention-center-says-its-not-responsible
I’m glad Biden ended family separation and has increased electronic monitoring over detention. Unfortunately, tons of people are still in abusive privately run immigration prisons. Many are dying during border crossings. Plenty of kids who immigrated are laboring in meat packing plants.
Biden continues many of Trump’s awful policies, but because he does it in a quieter, more respectable tone he receives less backlash. The lack of support people get from us is stark and the abolish ICE movement has withering away.
Both these situations are bad. I think my point is less about the election and more that we collectively should do something about these conditions. Mutual aid, volunteer, harass a representative, just something.
You’re forgetting about the year and a half long open border policy after Biden repealed Title 42, while pressing Congress to do their job and enact immigration reform. The only reason he restricted immigration was after receiving pressure from sanctuary cities. The president shouldn’t be enacting Executive Orders to control the border. That is a direct result of the failure of Congress.
Same thing happened to Obama. The border crisis is a manufactured thing by Republicans.
You’re not wrong. I guess the question is now whether you’re ok with the consequences of not kicking it?
The don’t think that far ahead.
Pithy comments that undermine their own stated aims are their entire contribution to the human experience.
They’ll have plenty of opportunities for pithy comments when Trump helps eradicate Palestine and Ukraine while tailoring the US for straight, rich, white, Christian Americans.
https://lemmy.world/comment/9851217
And the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primary will have plenty of opportunities to claim there was nothing wrong with knowingly voting for a candidate they knew would be unpopular with people they were depending on in the general election.
The DNC has been a let down since Obama. Biden was only better than Trump in 2020, as he still is. That’s the only reason he won.
“Everyone I disagree with is stupid and wrong”
I considered America a failed state 25 years ago, based on nothing but the last century of modern history, from textbooks — before 9/11, 20 years and trillions of dollars bombing the middle east to ((surrender)), the GFC, surveillance capitalism, citizens united, the rise of Trump and unadulterated fascism, etc, etc.
Guess what the last 25 years has taught me? A majority of humanity are entirely incapable of seeing beyond what’s directly and immediately in front of them! But sure… The people who saw this happening in slow motion, decades ago, are the problem! Whatever helps you sleep at night is all that matters.
Translation: Why fight becoming a dictatorship when dictatorship seems to be winning?
People acting like if Biden wins, Trump will magically disappear and another even more insane republican won’t immediately take his place and threaten democracy again.
I honestly think this is the closest to perfect time for the DNC to split and make a new party. They can easily start with at least 30-40 house members and maybe a few senators. The majority of young voters would probably opt to vote for them.
Suddenly they’d be forced to do coalitions to keep doing things, and republicans would lose voter base so fast they might even split themselves.
More like Republicans will all fall in line like they always do and win against a divided left every time.
Have you seen literally any multi party democracy ever?
Yes and in many of them when one whole side of the political spectrum is united , the other side loses badly. The American right wing has abysmally low expectations from their politicians and they fall in line anyways. It’ll happen again.