• disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    So you’re suggesting Trump then? I’m not sure if you’re aware of the state of the US election system, but there are two candidates that have a chance of being elected. One of them has a voter base that will vote regardless of criminal convictions for attempting to overturn an election, inciting an insurrection, and selling national secrets.

      • Franklin@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Yes if a republican didn’t vote it would be support for Biden, that is essentially how it boils down

        • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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          6 months ago

          Ok, well, I decided right now that I was going to vote for Trump but now I’m voting uncommitted, so that’s a vote for Biden in your book. You should be happy.

          • Franklin@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Just trying to avoid 2016 pt. 2

            You can always vote however you want I’m not trying to change that I’m just trying to get you to understand that your actions may not have your desired end result and why.

            We agree on what needs to happen just not the methods.

            • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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              6 months ago

              Can you explain how voting for Biden is “avoiding 2016 pt. 2?” It seems “2016 pt. 2” keeps happening anyway because people insist that we keep doing the same thing over and over again.

              • Franklin@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Do you sincerely not see a difference in the last 4 years as opposed to the four prior? We’ve had an increase action on health Care, student debt, decriminalization of marijuana, environmental action and a whole lot more.

                I’m not saying it’s perfect I’m just saying he’s the best option we’ve got and if you want to sway him more in the direction you want then in the meantime pressuring Congress will allow you to do that.

                Lack of votes don’t pressure anyone only votes do.

                • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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                  6 months ago

                  The only difference I’ve noticed is the lack of daily headlines regarding some new ‘gaffe’ committed by the president.

                  This vague list of action might as well be meaningless as it is little more than half measures and virtue signaling. Healthcare is still as expensive as it ever was, college is still as expensive as it ever was, marijuana is already legal in 1/2 the country and medically legal in 4/5th of the country, climate change is still rapidly getting worse, homelessness is increasing, housing prices are increasing, wages are still suppressed, unions are still suppressed, women, minorities, and LGBT people now have fewer rights.

                  Biden is only the best option we’ve got if you limit your support to one of two individuals out of 330 million citizens.

                  Lack of votes is the only way to pressure someone. How would anyone feel pressured to do anything after they’ve already received your vote? It’s not like you can take it back after the fact. This is precisely why neither of these two parties has to do anything beneficial in order to win elections. They deceive you into trapping yourself in a box where only two candidates exist while banking on the fact that you’d never vote for the other one.

                  If you want change, you actually have to change your actions. It’s not going to happen by doing the same thing you’ve always done.

                  • Franklin@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    I’m sorry but evidence does not support your claims, there are plenty of white papers to support the theory that votes and indeed the demographics that vote the most have the most sway in political policy especially in the US.

                    I’m saying you have a choice to make between two candidates, it shouldn’t be that narrow and we should try to change that but for now under the system we’ve been given that is our options barring violent protest.

                    Or you can choose to act upon any other apparatus of the political system such as Congress or municipal government. Not voting is an ineffective means of asserting your political intent.

          • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            I answered it before you asked it. Trump’s base is loyal to Trump first, and America second. They won’t sway regardless of his convictions, let alone international relations with Israel. Encouraging voter disengagement, abstaining from voting, or voting uncommitted would only fall on the ears of the voters opposing Trump, thereby improving his chances of winning.

            • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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              6 months ago

              No, you evaded the question which was a hypothetical, because you know answering it highlights how the logic you’re using fails.

              A non-vote is not a vote. You know this, so stop trying to use that rhetoric.

              • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                A non-vote from a voter who otherwise would have voted against Trump is a vote for Trump. This is how this election must be seen with polls this close and civil rights, international war, and climate change on the line. Stop encouraging voter disengagement unless your goal is another Trump presidency.

                • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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                  6 months ago

                  I’m not encouraging voter disengagement, I’m saying that Biden simply cannot get my vote without stopping his support of genocide. I simply will not put my name on it.

                  I still plan on engaging in June and in November though, whatever happens in the interim.

                  • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    Encouraging others to not cast a vote for an elector is the literal definition of voter disengagement. You’re not fooling anyone here.

                • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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                  6 months ago

                  civil rights, international war, and climate change on the line.

                  Those aren’t “on the line” because they aren’t considerations for either one of these candidates.

                  You’re just arguing to perpetuate the very system that brought us to this point. Don’t try to claim “that’s just how it works” either as it only works that way because of people like you ensuring its survival.

                  • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    Trump repealed 112 environmental regulations, sending us back over a decade, that Biden has been working hard to replace.

                    Trump left the Paris Accord, which Biden has signed agreement to.

                    Trump repealed the Obama-era rights for gender-affirming care that Biden just replaced.

                    Trump repealed net neutrality, which Biden just reinstated.

                    Trump stated that Russia should be allowed to attack anyone that doesn’t pay enough to NATO, and told Orbán that he intends to pull support from Ukraine.

                    So, yeah, they’re on the line.