Correct, but you won’t know if they think you’re gross until you talk to them. If you see that they think you’re gross, you stop. It’s harassment when you see that they think you’re gross but continue talking to them anyway, because at that point you know they aren’t going to respond well to you, and you’re just continuing on to spite them.
I ponder if people are comfortable expressing to someone they just meet that they find them gross? Hmm
My point is there often is nothing to see because that’s actively attempting to be hidden. Good normal decent people don’t like the feeling of giving people bad news already but when it’s bad news about something so personal and also recognizing that not everyone gets dealt the best hand in life?
It’s insane to put the entirety of responsibility to “read the room” on one person even if they are the initiator.
This is where social contract comes in. We all need a new modern social contract we can agree on to help us remove these barriers of interaction.
But i guess that’s the point of these types of works is to bring attention to that situation. It’s a valid observation i think, commentary on it aside for now
Well, if you’re actively trying to hide your disgust from someone, it’s because you don’t want them to know, at which point you obviously can’t expect them to react to it. Ultimately, it’s not about you trying to divine someone’s real feelings, instead it’s about reacting to what they do show you. It’s the responsibility of everyone who interacts with others in a public space to be knowledgeable about both verbal and nonverbal cues that someone’s not interested, so that they can display and/or recognize them as required.
As far as i can tell we said the same thing. I will admit i have a hard time figuring our how to explain what im thinking so im not attempting to blame anyone here
It’s the responsibility of everyone who interacts with others in a public space to be knowledgeable about both verbal and nonverbal cues that someone’s not interested, so that they can display and/or recognize them as required.
This is part of what i envision a new modern social contract would take care of
We have similar points, but I’m saying that it’s already the current social contract. Both parties are expected to respectfully respond to the others’ cues. Different people have an easier or harder time learning these cues, but there’s not really an excuse - we all have to work hard enough to get to the point where we can function socially in the community. Now, as is the case with any contract, there are going to be people who ignore it for their own benefit, not caring about how that affects others; such behavior generally qualifies as harassment.
I don’t see that as a new social contract though. That’s the one we have now
I’m proposing we come together to recognize a modern idea of what a social contract should be today.
It’s needs to be written, discussed, revised and ultimately accepted.
It seems to me not enough people acknowledges that this is even a thing at all. Cynical a that may be. We are talking about something similar it seems. Sorry I’m not the best at running down my thoughts. But i do appreciate you responding!
Different people have an easier or harder time learning these cues, but there’s not really an excuse - we all have to work hard enough to get to the point where we can function socially in the community
This is important to figure out. But it’s also why i see what we currently have as obsolete and not inclusive of our modern times.
We do not often compensate for people who don’t have the same advantages and opportunity to figure out those cues. Even when it is acknowledged.
There are excuses i can accept for not figuring out on your own these cues. This is why i think the idea of a social contract needs more attention.
And i could accept that the need for something new doesn’t exist, maybe. Ill concede that my mind isn’t settled in this yet in in spite of already holding a form opinion already.
But not without at least everyone being educated about it as much as you and i seem to be, flawed as that may or may not be.
At least enough that no one can claim ignorance of it, and also be responsible for their own actions and decisions
We’re simply never going to codify the social contract. Not only is it incredibly complex and situational, it’s also constantly changing - something that’s acceptable today might very well be seen as unacceptable in just a few years. The contract isn’t - nor should it be - pinned down; it’s just made up of any given community’s current feelings of what’s acceptable and what’s not. People’s feelings toward social interactions shift far too quickly for bureaucracy to keep up. It’s disappointing that it means some people will constantly be playing catch-up if they’re not able to easily and inherently understand the current contract, but even if we wrote out some “rules” that people were meant to follow, they wouldn’t.
That’s the thing about the current social contract - people only generally follow the rules now because they make inherent sense that comes naturally to them, which is why we have the problem of people not following them if they personally feel like they don’t make sense. However, if we tried to force it, all we’d get is even fewer people following the contract - unless you wanted to put actual laws in place to punish those who don’t, but then you’re getting into some shady governmental practices. It’s generally better to let society itself deal with those ne’er-do-wells, shunning them into either compliance or exile, like this comic is helping to do.
Our current social contract isn’t great, but I don’t honestly believe there is a better way of getting 8 billion people to functionally interact with one another.
I meant it needs to be written down again in a similar way that Hobbes Locke and Rousseau did once before.
We need enough people to be thinking about it with fresh eyes of this modern world.
You are absolutely correct it cant be codified like it’s a set of rules or something.
I just believe that if there is a critical mass of people re-evaluating the concept, either because the world has changed enough that in a large part due to modern technology having got to a point we are invested online often more than offline.
And going back to what you were saying, different people will have a different experience so they will not have the same needs or considerations. I think this connection to ground level communities almost anywhere in the world means we need to update our tools to understand our place and the consquences of our actions.
And it’s an amazing accomplishment. But we need to keep it amazing by his we choose to use it and what we want to do with it and the people we cross here.
Ah, I get what you’re saying now. Yeah, we definitely need more people thinking about how we interact as a community, especially considering how well-connected we are these days. Whether or not any individual would really be able to have a significant impact on society as a whole is unclear, but at the very least having ideas for how we can process all of the information that we’re now being bombarded with would be good for combating our ongoing mental health crisis.
Correct, but you won’t know if they think you’re gross until you talk to them. If you see that they think you’re gross, you stop. It’s harassment when you see that they think you’re gross but continue talking to them anyway, because at that point you know they aren’t going to respond well to you, and you’re just continuing on to spite them.
I ponder if people are comfortable expressing to someone they just meet that they find them gross? Hmm
My point is there often is nothing to see because that’s actively attempting to be hidden. Good normal decent people don’t like the feeling of giving people bad news already but when it’s bad news about something so personal and also recognizing that not everyone gets dealt the best hand in life?
It’s insane to put the entirety of responsibility to “read the room” on one person even if they are the initiator.
This is where social contract comes in. We all need a new modern social contract we can agree on to help us remove these barriers of interaction.
But i guess that’s the point of these types of works is to bring attention to that situation. It’s a valid observation i think, commentary on it aside for now
Well, if you’re actively trying to hide your disgust from someone, it’s because you don’t want them to know, at which point you obviously can’t expect them to react to it. Ultimately, it’s not about you trying to divine someone’s real feelings, instead it’s about reacting to what they do show you. It’s the responsibility of everyone who interacts with others in a public space to be knowledgeable about both verbal and nonverbal cues that someone’s not interested, so that they can display and/or recognize them as required.
As far as i can tell we said the same thing. I will admit i have a hard time figuring our how to explain what im thinking so im not attempting to blame anyone here
This is part of what i envision a new modern social contract would take care of
We have similar points, but I’m saying that it’s already the current social contract. Both parties are expected to respectfully respond to the others’ cues. Different people have an easier or harder time learning these cues, but there’s not really an excuse - we all have to work hard enough to get to the point where we can function socially in the community. Now, as is the case with any contract, there are going to be people who ignore it for their own benefit, not caring about how that affects others; such behavior generally qualifies as harassment.
I don’t see that as a new social contract though. That’s the one we have now
I’m proposing we come together to recognize a modern idea of what a social contract should be today.
It’s needs to be written, discussed, revised and ultimately accepted.
It seems to me not enough people acknowledges that this is even a thing at all. Cynical a that may be. We are talking about something similar it seems. Sorry I’m not the best at running down my thoughts. But i do appreciate you responding!
This is important to figure out. But it’s also why i see what we currently have as obsolete and not inclusive of our modern times.
We do not often compensate for people who don’t have the same advantages and opportunity to figure out those cues. Even when it is acknowledged. There are excuses i can accept for not figuring out on your own these cues. This is why i think the idea of a social contract needs more attention.
And i could accept that the need for something new doesn’t exist, maybe. Ill concede that my mind isn’t settled in this yet in in spite of already holding a form opinion already. But not without at least everyone being educated about it as much as you and i seem to be, flawed as that may or may not be. At least enough that no one can claim ignorance of it, and also be responsible for their own actions and decisions
We’re simply never going to codify the social contract. Not only is it incredibly complex and situational, it’s also constantly changing - something that’s acceptable today might very well be seen as unacceptable in just a few years. The contract isn’t - nor should it be - pinned down; it’s just made up of any given community’s current feelings of what’s acceptable and what’s not. People’s feelings toward social interactions shift far too quickly for bureaucracy to keep up. It’s disappointing that it means some people will constantly be playing catch-up if they’re not able to easily and inherently understand the current contract, but even if we wrote out some “rules” that people were meant to follow, they wouldn’t.
That’s the thing about the current social contract - people only generally follow the rules now because they make inherent sense that comes naturally to them, which is why we have the problem of people not following them if they personally feel like they don’t make sense. However, if we tried to force it, all we’d get is even fewer people following the contract - unless you wanted to put actual laws in place to punish those who don’t, but then you’re getting into some shady governmental practices. It’s generally better to let society itself deal with those ne’er-do-wells, shunning them into either compliance or exile, like this comic is helping to do.
Our current social contract isn’t great, but I don’t honestly believe there is a better way of getting 8 billion people to functionally interact with one another.
Sorry my bad.
I meant it needs to be written down again in a similar way that Hobbes Locke and Rousseau did once before.
We need enough people to be thinking about it with fresh eyes of this modern world.
You are absolutely correct it cant be codified like it’s a set of rules or something.
I just believe that if there is a critical mass of people re-evaluating the concept, either because the world has changed enough that in a large part due to modern technology having got to a point we are invested online often more than offline.
And going back to what you were saying, different people will have a different experience so they will not have the same needs or considerations. I think this connection to ground level communities almost anywhere in the world means we need to update our tools to understand our place and the consquences of our actions.
And it’s an amazing accomplishment. But we need to keep it amazing by his we choose to use it and what we want to do with it and the people we cross here.
Ah, I get what you’re saying now. Yeah, we definitely need more people thinking about how we interact as a community, especially considering how well-connected we are these days. Whether or not any individual would really be able to have a significant impact on society as a whole is unclear, but at the very least having ideas for how we can process all of the information that we’re now being bombarded with would be good for combating our ongoing mental health crisis.