More video and eyewitness info on Al Jazeera so far

Also reported on Common Dreams and Middle East Eye.

I haven’t found any reports of any independent investigations yet, hopefully they are underway

  • Eldritch@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    9 months ago

    Israel != Jews. Lots of Jews are calling out Israel for, to all outward appearances, committing genocide. One of Israelis own judges on the recent IJC hearing with South Africa concurred with South Africa on two points IIRC. Not to mention that Israel failed to make their case completely. So there’s that.

    • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      9 months ago

      Why is it that the people making the accusations of genocide don’t like it when it is pointed out that the people they are specifically accusing the children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors?

      You may be refusing to use the word Jew, you may be talking only of specific Jews (in truth the majority of Israeli/American Jews, who are the majority of Jews worldwide, but I digress), and you may refuse to bear mention of their relation to genocide themselvea, but this is what you mean, clearly, unless you can decontextualize the Israeli government from the people of Israel, as if it is something placed on them and not of them. You aren’t able to do that, I suspect.

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        I don’t mind it being pointed out. It’s especially damning because of that. You would think that they had learned better. But as is often the problem with humankind. We don’t ever really learn. We just retaliate when given the chance.

        When I say Israel that means government. When I say Israeli people. That means Israeli people. Like when people say America. Typically means American government. When they say American people. That typically means the American people. Is that clear? Hopefully that clears it up.

        And to be 1000% clear. It is the Israeli government, specifically likud In the knesset that are the problem. Plenty of the Israeli people are aghast at their own government’s actions.

        • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          9 months ago

          Sure, plenty of people in Israel are aghast at their government’s actions, but they aren’t claiming genocide like you are.

          So.again, we are dealing with you using Jews as a prop who can be trusted when they agree with you but but can’t when they disagree with you.

          How is this not antisemitism in your mind?

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Raz Segal (Hebrew: רז סגל) is an Israeli historian residing in the United States who is Associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies and Endowed Professor in the Study of Modern Genocide at Stockton University, where he also directs the Master of Arts in Holocaust and Genocide Studies program. He has written multiple books about the Holocaust in Carpathian Ruthenia, based on analysis of primary and secondary sources in Hebrew, English, German, Yiddish and Hungarian.Source

                • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Yes, you posted this before and never replied when I responded.

                  If 1 scholar is enough to prove something for you, does 2 disprove it?

                  Have you established consensus of scholars are on your side?

                  • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    If 1 scholar is enough to prove something for you, does 2 disprove it?

                    Does a butterfly flapping it’s wings in Japan cause a hurricane in the Caribbean?

                    Have you established consensus of scholars are on your side?

                    Have you established a consensus of scholars are on your side?

    • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      9 months ago

      As for your ICJ argument, did the Israeli judge concur genocide was taking place?

      If so? It’s pretty disingenous to argue that Israeli officials can be trusted when they agree with you, but can’t when they disagree with you.

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        It doesn’t matter that they agree with me. The panel as a whole decided that it was likely genocide was taking place. It’s just especially damning when those from the home team have to reluctantly concur on a number of points.

        • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          9 months ago

          Please shoe me a quotation from the panel where they state that this is “likely genocide.”

          Is that your interpretation or the direct wording?

        • DdCno1@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          9 months ago

          It did not decide that it was likely. The wording is very specific and deliberate: The preliminary ruling states that “at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the Convention”. Notice how careful the wording is: “At least some”, “alleged”, “appear to be capable of falling within” - this kind of wording is being used to express a great deal of uncertainty.