so the idea of trying to learn one more is daunting, even if Esperanto is designed to be easy to learn.

Even that would people contest. For me it was easier to learn and I think there things in the language, which make it easier to learn. BUT that idea that it’s truly universal “easier” is often criticized and doubted. Which leaves me with a disappointing “maybe” with a slight tilt to “it’s easier”, so “maybe it’s easier?”.

I could barely learn a 3rd language (French) so the idea

If we keep in the idea set of how Esperanto came about, then the idea was to learn two to three languages and be a world citizen afterwards. Two languages, because that would be your mother tongue and Esperanto and for three languages that would be your mother tongue, the language of your region like for cultural heritage reasons and Esperanto to be a world citizen.

I learnt Esperanto after i learnt English in school. It’s my third language and I belong to those who got afterwards more confident, that I could acquire another language by myself. So for some people it’s easier to learn and it brings them then the confidence, that when they find motivation to learn a specific new language, that they could do that.

I myself am still stuck with three languages, because I did not had a strong motivation to learn an additional language. There are too much languages and there are too much conflicting incentives to learn one over another. Wanna understand China? Learn Mandarin! Learn one of the other big languages in the world for financial progress! Then learn Spanish! Be supportive of the deaf community! Then learn one of the many dialects of sign language!

I don’t know if it really is losing mindshare. Toki Pona is really popular among a very loud minority.

On one hand these people just may be learning it, because it’s an interesting conlang, nothing against that. Learn whatever language you like.

Then the loud part of the Toki Pona community learn it partially because they think it’s morally superior to other eurocentric conlangs like Esperanto. And those will eagerly say to you, that Toki Pona is the best language ever. So maybe is the perception that Esperanto is losing mindshare, because of Toki Pona, just a result of working propaganda by that very loud minority.

Esperanto is also in general not a very popular language, as its normally compared to English for its audacity to become a lingua franca. Still, to my knowledge it’s still the largest constructed language community. Toki Pona or other languages need to get to that level of sophistication which Esperanto already aquired during 136 years of its existence.

I honestly did not know there were axe-crazy Esperanto fans online.

Oh, there are always those.

These kind of speakers can be found also offline. It’s funny they are the result on one hand of the fondness to our little language and the reactions towards it by speakers of other languages. Esperanto gets a shitload of bad reputation and the resistance to it then creates such personalities.

In some sense they rightfully act like they act.

Funny that this thread re-appeared during the xz “scandal”. I had a little bit of fun regarding it, when it initially appeared in the f-droid forum.

What’s actually kinda interesting is that Esperanto is having a moment like this, while technically you are to use the pronouns Li and Sxi, for he and her, Duolingo has a lot of the use of Si, which is a singular they, and since a lot of esperanto’s modern speakers are duolingo users, a lot of folks are just using si.

I speak Esperanto for 14 years now. And no, “si” is not a singular “they”. That’s a self-referencing pronoun. And if that usage is used for genderless addressing a person then this is simply incorrect usage, because people don’t know how actually the language works. It’s used in sentences like “li lavis sin” vs. “Li lavis lin”. The first one says “he washes himself” and the second says “he washes him”, the first references the person who executes the action to reference and the second says that the action is done on a different person.

If it comes to Esperanto and genderless usage then there ĝi (it) or ri (they). The first one would be more in accordance with the fundament of the language and the second is a new pronoun which is around since at least the 70s.

No need to misuse si.

Saluton, kiel vi?

which only has european roots

Oh I love it how people shit on Esperanto for it’s euroncentrism. Argumentation by perfectionism, that’s this. No one says that Esperanto could not evolve into a more egalitarian language, but feeling morally superior because its inventor chose to take from one cohesive language family (latin, romance languages) because the roman empire conquered the world a long time ago … is silly and wrong.

They are equally useful and about as well developed.

Comparing Esperanto with Klingon is comparing apples and oranges. No, Klingon is not that developed as Esperanto is. Klingon is for a bunch of enthusiastic Trekkies who wan’t to live their universe. Esperanto has a 136 year old history with a bunch of literature, music and tradition behind it.

No other constructed language has that.

Nobody uses it. You’ll be the only one.

What for a pile of crap of an opinion. Most languages can be described as “nobody” uses it. When you are outside of the top 10 languages in the world, then any language is a harder way to use it. You could move to the country or region where it’s then spoken or maybe find the community in your city which speaks such a language.

Esperanto can be also found like that. There are people who speak it and also there are regular events where people can meet up.

Every book is not “accessible”, when it’s not even opened and willfully ignored of existing.

There is:

• https://lernu.net
• [https://esperanto12.net/en](Esperanto in 12 days)
• [https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Esperanto-Learn-write-understand/dp/1473669189](Complete Esperanto)
• [https://en.duolingo.com/course/eo/en/Learn-Esperanto](Duolingo Esperanto)

There are languages to which it’s less accessible, but from the bigger ones, it’s quiet accessible.

But if people don’t open their eyes they don’t see the forest in which they are standing.

Esperanto is eurocentric, because it’s international. Because romance languages where made by colonialism of the roman empire. The argument goes of “equality”. Thinking the other way around would be that asiatic languages colonized the world, then Esperanto would be based on asiatic languages.

Esperanto is a pragmatic language, not a “totally neutral” language. If you design a language to be “totally neutral” then parts would be distributed differently. How to chose which vocabulary of languages should be used often?

So using romance languages is a pragmatic solution to this. Through usage words can be added or fall out of use, all that is allowed in Esperanto and which can make the language out of colonialism in the future more egalitarian.

But it’s ignorant to ignore Esperanto at all and morally vilifying it as “eurocentric therefore bad”.