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  • 13 Comments
Joined 1 year ago
Cake day: July 2nd, 2023
  • edgesmash@lemmy.worldtoComic Strips@lemmy.world•Seeing a lot of this lately...
    31·
    5 months ago

    Let me restate your point to make sure I understand it, as I haven’t seen your point expressed elsewhere.

    Scenario 1:

    • Democratic candidate for president is Biden.
    • Progressives want a more progressive candidate for the next election, so they refuse to vote for Biden.
    • As a result, Trump wins the election.
    • In the 2028 DNC primaries, the democratic candidate for president is more progressive than Biden was.
    • Progressives vote for the dem candidate, who wins.
    • The democratic party is permanently shifted leftwards.

    In this scenario, having a more progressive president in 2028 (and beyond) outweighs the damage caused by a Trump presidency.

    Scenario 2:

    • Democratic candidate for president is Biden.
    • Progressives decide to vote for Biden, despite their distaste.
    • As a result, Biden wins reelection.
    • In the 2028 DNC primaries, the democratic candidate for president is similar to Biden.
    • The democratic party stays centrist, to the distaste of progressives.

    In this scenario, avoiding a Trump presidency is worth giving up the opportunity to move the democratic party permanently more leftwards.

    Do I have this right? If not, please, I’m truly curious, as I find your game theory points compelling.

    Assuming I do have your position correct, I think you’re making a couple of inaccurate assumptions:

    • While the DNC clearly tips the scales in favor of its preferred candidate, the DNC is not the sole decision maker. (For example, in the 2008 primaries, the voters chose Obama despite the clear preference of the DNC for Clinton.)
    • A Trump presidency would be singularly bad for the nation, both in the short term (e.g., immediate repeal of executive actions on gun control, clean energy, and LGBTQ+ rights; increased support of Israel’s genocide in Gaza) and long term (e.g., more MAGA judges and justices, further emboldening the GOP to be more MAGA). It’s also possible that a Trump presidency effectively ends proper democracy in the US, meaning any potential gains of a future progressive president would be irrelevant.

    I agree that the more we push the party leftward, the better for all. But I believe the time to do this is in presidential primaries, state/county/local elections, local and national organizing, and even personal outreach to individuals (admittedly, this last one is very small scale, but it’s also the only way to truly change people’s minds and positions).

  • edgesmash@lemmy.worldtoPolitical Memes@lemmy.world•Someone stop the ride, I want to get off
    1·
    6 months ago

    You’re right that I left a crucial element out of my admittedly simplistic two step process. We should pressure Biden to be better and to stop supporting the genocide in Gaza.

    I consider myself to be solidly left, maybe not full-on progressive but supportive of many progressive policies. And I think Biden has been a good president when you consider the context he’s been given. I don’t have time to write it all out now, but if I did, I’d be glad to argue that Biden had been a good (not great) president. I think the millions who have had their student debt cancelled, bought OTC birth control, got off unemployment and into a job would agree.

    Granted, Biden’s campaign hasn’t done a good job, groceries are still too damned expensive, and he hasn’t stopped the genocide in Gaza. But, save a violent nationwide revolution, the 2024 presidential ballot is Biden vs. Trump. And, on the issue of the genocide, Trump has demonstrated he’d be an enthusiastic supporter of Israel, much more than Biden.

  • edgesmash@lemmy.worldtoPolitical Memes@lemmy.world•Someone stop the ride, I want to get off
    112·
    6 months ago

    Biden hasn’t been great. He dragged his feet on issues he campaigned on (e.g., student debt relief), he sounds eve older than he is, and perhaps most gallingly, he didn’t unequivocally renounce the genocide in Gaza immediately. Inflation sucks and wages aren’t high enough for most to survive, let alone thrive. I can name a dozen progressives off the top of my head I’d rather have as president.

    First past the post voting and the two-party system give us little chance at the national level for meaningful fast change.

    But have you seen the shit Trump has promised he will do as president? We all learned an important lesson from the first Trump presidency: take him seriously, not literally. I shouldn’t need to list the things Trump has promised to do, but here’s a highlight reel:

    • Enthusiastically support Israel’s “invasion” of Gaza
    • Waste billions on a useless border wall
    • Deploy the military domestically to “fight crime”, “coincidentally” in blue states
    • Slash federal education spending and let states handle their own education
    • Repeal background checks, reopen the gun show loophole, roll back federal laws against gun trafficking, and make it easier for kids under 21 to get guns
    • Undo Title IX trans rights

    And he won’t stand in the way of any of the Project2025 insanity the GOP wants to pursue.

    So, on the left, you have an old man who has maybe made things a little better for some too slowly while ignoring a genocide. On the right, you have an old man who endorses that same genocide, promises to make the country an actively worse place for many, and who has empirically proven he will encourage and endorse insurrection and treason to stay in power.

    The best play for the future is two-pronged:

    1. For the medium/far future: push for electoral reform like IRV/ranked choice voting at the local/state level (to get people used to it), endorse third-party candidates, run for local office, donate time/money to causes that matter to you.
    2. For the near term, to allow the first bullet point to take root and thrive: Don’t let Trump get elected, which means, unfortunately, voting for Biden.