You might want to reword that. It’s not an obvious interpretation at least to me.

The only reason I drink so much is that everything else is so much worse.

What do you mean? Alcohol is one of the harder and more addictive drugs you can do. Standard anti-deppressants aren’t nearly as bad and neither are many illicit substances like cannabis and ecstasy. There are a few that are worse (heroin, crack cocaine, maybe benzodiazepines) but I don’t think people would reach for these just to treat for anxiety.

Edit: Even Ketamine is only roughly as bad and dangerous as alcohol while being much better at treating things like depression and anxiety. It’s regularly used now to treat these disorders in treatment resistant patients. A course of treatment can last up to one month after the last dose. It’s can also be effective within one hour of the first dose.

If you know which jobs are bullshit then you don’t need to lower wages, you just eliminate the roles or at least stop hiring new people for them. None of this argument makes sense. I think you wanted to punish workers that did something you didn’t like and then got called out on it.

Also changing wages to encourage people into certain jobs is a capitalist economic technique. My idea of paying people for harder work (physical or intellectual work) is much closer to the socialist statement of “to each according to their labour”. Studying is a form of labour performed for free or even at cost to the person doing the labour. Higher wages for the educated are partially there to reflect this.

Essential workers would be paid vastly more while the vast quantity of bullshit jobs(read theory) would be paid the bullshit rates they deserve.

Denial isn’t going to get you anywhere

So why do you want to punish the workers with lower wages if it’s not their fault?

I can’t believe you actually think bullshit jobs are the fault of the workers. The whole point of bullshit jobs is that they are created by the inefficiencies of capitalism - not workers.

You don’t even know my age. I could be older than you for all you know.

No. If you have to resort to that it shows you lost. How old even are you to be telling me to grow up? You’re edgy enough still to support a dictators that killed real leftists. That’s why everyone calls you tankies. You can’t deal with the fact that your leaders come from middle class backgrounds either.

I’ve actually had enough of this now. Thanks for reminding me why people hate tankies.

That’s rich coming from someone who will likely kill other communists if a revolution is successful. That’s what MLs always do. Time and time again.

Also Lenin was born upper middle class. So clearly what you are saying is false if you actually follow Lenin.

Well that’s good news at least. Still dosen’t make sense why you would support a guy that killed Anarchist and Marxist comrades just because they disagreed with him

In all fairness you could fit a small helicopter in their if you wanted too. The 747 Freighters are used to move plane parts and they even based the dreamlifter off of it!

Mate your from a regime that failed every single time it was tried. You’re existence makes the whole cause look bad and is why the left has recruiting problems.

The best thing I could possibly do for socialism is get rid of Stalinists and Maoists. These leaders were about as bad as Churchil. There are plenty of anarchists that want rid of you too, who I am still considering joining. The anarchists were the ones that invented the term tankie to begin with!

Nobody will take the far-left seriously until we come up with something that isn’t Marxist-Leninism. Even Trotskists have some clue about this problem, and Trotsky was more radical than Stalin by some accounts.

Honestly I don’t know why I bother. As you have pointed out my parents are petty-burgeoise. I could probably become a petty-burgeoise or at least a high earning member of the proletariat if I put my mind to it. I have more chance of that happening than you guys actually causing a revolution and not have it collapse afterwards. I mean I already have a Master’s degree, it’s really not that difficult to move up in the world provided your not starving to begin with and you’re not an idiot.

Then why are you trying to call out “champagne socialists”? There are parts of the working class that have more than enough money to buy champagne and generally live a comfortable (or even affluent) lifestyle. There are even people who have made millions through labor alone, more rich than the petty-burgeoise. You’ve talked yourself into a contradiction.

I’ve also literally made the arguement that you are now making about working class not being how much you earn. I had to do this when someone tried to claim that programmers and police officers are not working class cause they earn too much. The difference is I don’t go around accusing people who work full time of being “champagne socialists” whatever that term means.

Not sure I’d agree with any study saying it is physically addictive, habitually I’d agree. So you’re willing to ignore science… that’s sounds like a river in Egypt to me mate.

Habit forming and addictive mean the same thing in medical terms. Cannabis has observed withdrawal symptoms like sleeplessness, appetite changes, and nausea that classify it as physically addictive. You’re ignoring these because it dosen’t suit your narrative and beliefs.

My point on the sugar though is it certainly does create addiction. I agree with this provided your talking about refined sugars. The point is though it’s not a drug. Sugars are a natural part of the human diet. They literally make up your DNA. Refined sugars are not natural though.

How do you define if then?

Free education would be great. I am not saying I don’t want free education. All I actually did was challenge the notion that education is unattainable for the working class financially. Our student loan system in this country is much better than the system in the US which is downright predatory. Here even people from working class backgrounds can go to University provided they are smart enough. The vast majority of students loans in this country are never repaid in full or at all, it’s simply written off. Therefore it wouldn’t actually cost much more to give free tuition.

Something else you should probably understand is that almost all money is debt. Over 90% of it. The rich create a lot of their wealth this way. Student loans are another type of loan you can exploit to become richer in the long run. The difference is even poorer people can exploit this type of loan for their benefit rather than it being detrimental and predatory like payday loans or US student loans.

My parents don’t live in the UK anymore but I fully get what you are saying. They could indeed be called parasites and I have had a similar discussion with them about this. The thing you should probably understand though is they both came from poor single parent house holds where they struggled to afford proper food to eat (I remember my dad telling me about having blamonge on toast because they couldn’t afford anything else). Capitalism for all it’s flaws is a lot better in terms of social mobility than feudalism. Socialist models are actually worse in this department, though this need not be a bad thing if there is enough for everyone.

I don’t want anyone to have poverty wages. You on the other hand seem to want that when you talk about bullshit jobs and the people who work them. It’s not the people who work these jobs fault that those jobs exist. They go to work just like anybody else. I treat lesser skilled jobs better than you treat bullshit jobs, even though bullshit jobs aren’t the fault of people who work those jobs, wheras anybody can work to increase their skill level.

Edit: Also the middle class make up half or more of the working population according to some definitions. You’re saying that more than half workers shouldn’t be part of the socialist movement. Think about that before you answer.

And you’re completely delusional if you think that the existence of student loans makes university accessible. Many people can not afford living expenses to make it work without familial support, which I’m glad you had but it’s not what many people have. It’s privileged.

That’s hilarious because I have literally seen people do it. You’re the one who’s delusional. I know people who get less support from their rich family than they would have gotten from the government had their family been poor. It’s actually a problem with sliding scale student loans based on family income. What happens when you’re family can’t be assed supporting you?

Essential workers would be paid vastly more while the vast quantity of bullshit jobs(read theory) would be paid the bullshit rates they deserve.

So you actually want more income quality than I do by the sounds of it. Yet you call my ideas far-right? You’re supposed to get rid of bullshit jobs entirely in a revolution. So that’s not even a consideration. Besides that I think paying people who are educated or do more physical work or more dangerous work is reasonable. Getting a degree is worse than free labour; you pay them to do work! That work is repaid later by higher wages. Even making University free wouldn’t be enough as you still are putting in labour during you’re time and university and not earning any money for that time.

I really don’t want you anywhere near the leadership of a revolution. I think you’ve managed to clarify for me why I dislike Marxist-Leninists. You don’t actually think about anybody outside of the poorest in society and have no grasp on real life.

It is physically addictive. Research has shown this already I am fairly sure. It’s not nearly as addictive as some other things like alcohol obviously. Psychological addiction also shouldn’t be dismissed.

Sugar is dangerous? Maybe refined sugars are - especially if you’re diabetic - but most sugars are actually natural and some form complex carbohydrates and fibres. It’s a lot more complex than this hot take. Sometimes even diabetic people need sugar in an emergency condition called hypoglycemia. It’s also not in any way a drug; really wish people stopped saying this. Also genetic material is partially made from sugars like ribose and deoxyribose.

There are real life consequences to smoking too much weed and this can include damage to your lungs and can negatively impact the brain. Brain problems is mostly an issue for people under 25 though so smoking after this age is less problematic. That being said it’s still much better than some other drugs like you say. Before people ask yes this includes alcohol as alcohol is quite toxic to brain and body when consumed habitually.

Weed can’t replace all prescriptions either. It’s just not as good at blocking pain as opiates even if it’s a lot safer. That being said if it helps you then that’s great - especially if it’s in edible form or spray form as this is healthier than smoking.

I grew up an area that’s recognized as one of the most deprived in England. It’s called Bridlington if you want to look it up. My family are not the worst off but we were never rich. My mum was a teaching assistant and/or teacher and my dad worked it hospitality as a manager. So not the worst jobs but also not the best. They both worked full time.

It’s also a completely wrong that only middle class people go to University. We have this amazing thing called student loans that are only repayed above certain wages. You get bigger loans the less well off your parents are.

I don’t know what you have to do to be classed as middle class because it’s not an easier defined term. It’s also not a term really used by marxism. They use the term petite bourgeois if my understanding is correct. I guess you could call my parents that as they were landlords. But at the same time they had to work full time at a normal job and all houses were mortgaged. So you could also say they are the proletariat. This is why the marixst class model dosen’t actually hold up always in real life. Real life is too complex as people can be in multiple classes at once.

You’re also going to get nowhere by disparaging other workers just because they earn more than you. That’s what you seem to want to do.

It’s also completely natural for some people to be paid more than others based on their labour. The Soviet Union had this exact policy for jobs that required more education or more physical work. That’s exactly how it should be outside of a post- scarcity society.

It’s good that rent was that low in the Soviet Union but you also have more needs than housing. Food comes to mind where many people starved due to collectivisation efforts in the Soviet Union at the start. I understand they rectified this later but it is probable that the early stages of a socialist society will have problems like this. Things are likely to get worse in the beginning - not better.

I agree about the state of the NHS. The fact is though we still have an NHS, America never had one. Lots of countries don’t have healthcare either.

How exactly is unskilled labour a myth? Maybe I should use the term less skilled or just easily replaceable since it’s not 100% unskilled? Either way the result is the same: some labour takes way more time and training than other forms of labour. I don’t think you can complain when a scientist or doctor that spent 7+ years at University while not getting paid gets a higher salary at the end. If you think this is a radical idea I really don’t know what to tell you. I don’t think anybody should be on poverty wages.

This is factually incorrect. Low income votes go left while high income votes go right. There was a blip created by brexit where this was not the case because everything became the single issue of brexit.

I am reporting what I have seen amoung students rather than the general population. The ones who have already been in work or are having to work hard to support themselves while studying are more centrist or right wing.

4.2million children live in poverty, out of 12.7million total.

By third world country standards they are probably rich. Poverty is very much relative. Some people make less in a day than minimum wage in this country for an hour. It’s still not a good thing by any means, but that’s sadly the reality. I don’t think a socialist revolution is going to guarantee everybody has enough food, clothes, and other resources. A lot of people would inevitably end up poorer than to start with, at least for the foreseeable future.