Thank you for your service to the public.

Yeah. This one felt exactly the expected amount of WTF to be real life, today.

Can you be more specific?

Sure.

I’ve had discussions about my impression that Rust’s build chain can be a bit surly compared to other popular languages.

I don’t particularly mean it as a criticism - of course Rust’s security enforcement comes with more warnings and errors.

But the novel part of the interactions, for me, was Rust community members coming at me with ‘well get gud, newbie’.

These interactions are particularly ironic, given my experiences and specialties. I’m an old school veteran software developer. I have spent over half of my career in dedicated Cybersecurity roles.

These conversations converted me from a mildly interested Rust proponent into a casual Rust critic.

I have heard of him compare the cult-like following Rust has with the whole Vim/Emacs tribalism thing.

Heh.

I do think the worst thing going for Rust, right now, is the Rust community.

It feels like few specific jackasses from the Java community made the jump to Rust, and no one had the sense to slap them with a newspaper.

Spot on. And I’ve found it’s even that bad at small companies too, if the company is more than five years old.

Maybe because I tried to follow MS’s “use your own distro” instructions instead of using something prepackaged?

Not op, and I don’t care about systemd, but…

When I’ve used anything I wanted to substantially modify, I’ve followed the “use your own distro” instructions. In the past I’ve done this because WSL had a strong assumption of exactly one copy of each distro, and I like to abuse it for more.

Overall, I’ve had a better time with the the “bring your own distro” instructions. But some of my experiences with WSL were before they even got the Windows Store installer working correctly.

More recently, I recall Windows Store being fine for stock Ubuntu and for stock Debian. But I didn’t find the “bring your own distro” instructions to be much trouble, either. My perhaps faulty memory is that it took maybe ten minutes, last time I used them.

So why are you advising to change the default install of Debian to include it?

I didn’t advice any such thing. My edit is just to acknowledge someone else who makes it part of their process.

Citation needed.

I shared my personal experience and you turned it into a distro war. Go look up your own damn sources.

Pretty sure this is either personal opinion or anti-canonical, anti-snap ideology.

Fuck yes. It’s both! Snap is a slap in the face to the contributors who brought Canonical this far. I appreciate their partnership so far, and now, speaking as a package maintainer, Canonical can fuck right off.

Targeting WSL users with this rhetoric is ridiculous.

Helping people make an informed decision about their tool chain is rhetoric? Give me a fucking break.

I don’t like Ubuntu. That’s not a secret. Ubuntu is a fine option for total newbies. People using WSL tend not to be total newbies and may well run into real issues (such as the ones that prompted me to switch), thanks to snap.

I mean, I didn’t read terribly closely, because I already made my choice.

My reason is that the benefits of Ubuntu over Debian are most noticeable in the GUI, which WSL doesn’t contain.

In contrast, I find the benefits of Debian over Ubuntu to be most noticeable on the command line, which is all we get in WSL anyway.

To me this is some solid advice that I already knew.

I think there’s also a fair assumption by the author that anyone running WSL isn’t a total Linux newbie. I personally, think of WSL as an intermediate skill level way to run Linux, because WSL is still - frankly - a huge pain in the ass, when contrasted with trying out a bootable USB drive, and then only gives the command line, which is also a very limited way to experience Linux. (I think it will get better, but today WSL is not a way that I recommend to newbies to try out Linux.)

That’s a fair enough reason. I personally never noticed because the “this isn’t running” message is pretty clear to me. But I can see how that’s a potential blocker for newer Linux users.

All the answers are going to assume WSL is using Ubuntu.

Every recipe that I have ever encountered for Ubuntu worked on Debian, except the recipes involving Snaps, which were inevitably much simpler on Debian. And I haven’t seen anything useful under WSL (cli tools) packaged better as a snap anyway.

Why do Linux advocates try so desperately to overcomplicate things?

Computers are complicated. Linux advocates just aren’t being paid to lie about it.

In this case, this is a simple 7 character (edit: plus a (optional) one line command to enable systemd) change that can save a newbie a lot of trouble, and comes with no downside. the downside that systemd isn’t enabled by default. (Edit: a good point made below.)

There’s very few cases where Debian and Ubuntu are different at on the command line (which WSL is). In those very few cases, anyone using WSL is going to have a much better time on Debian, because they’re more likely to find a working recipe.

The exact reasons for this are nuanced, but come down - folks liked me publishing recipes don’t target Ubuntu anymore, because I wasn’t (as a package maintainer) invited to the Snap party. Which is fine. Flatpak does the same job, in an open way.

So for the 98% of recipes that predate Snap, there’s no difference to be had as a user. For the cutting edge 2% of new stuff, newbies are increasingly better off on Debian.

(Edit: In case anyone was wondering, I really, personally, don’t like Ubuntu, because it has Snaps. I’m aware that makes me a meme.

Snaps are bad for the community, and bad for the user.

Some of us understand why, and do our best to mention it politely, every so often, to save our peers a headache or two.

That said, folks who need hand-held through the specifics of why Snap sucks would do better asking elsewhere. I am famously old and irritable.)

“if you’re a Linux expert, this article isn’t for you. You’re probably already using Debian if you use WSL”

As a Linux expert - yep! My distro choice under WSL is Debian, for the same reasons shared in the article.

// portability

Gave me the giggles. I’ve helped maintain systems where this portable solution would have left everyone better off.

As timely today as it was in 2016.

as long as you write it for yourself, you re good. As soon as you want to share it, you have a problem

A perfect summary of the history of computer code!

Good point.

Yeah. I gotta admit I laughed at Ellen’s (completely unrelatable) “relatable” jokes about being ultra wealthy.

I dunno if she counts for this request?

I guess she’s more conservative than many comedians, but I’m guessing her wife makes sure she still votes in favor of civil liberties like marriage rights.

Others mention Chappelle here, and I want to just mention, I did watch his last special with an open mind, and I just want that hour back.

It was depressing on a couple of levels. But most importantly (for a comedian) I didn’t find it even a little bit funny.

I like a good bit of dark comedy, and tragedy plus time, and all that.

But Dave Chappelle should pay for a therapist in private, instead of wasting my time.

+1 for Bill Burr, who will mock anyone, pretty mercilessly.

Also, his cameo in Star Wars, after giving tons of shit to Star Wars fans, is an utter delight. (And made him a fan.)

I love it! Thanks for letting me know.

I’ve found that mapping a big dumb button to “Enter” works nicely for adding drama when invoking a big old batch script process.