AstroStelar [he/him]

22 y/o, autistic, AroAce, Marxist with Mega Man characteristics (also Kirby)

  • 47 Posts
  • 378 Comments
Joined 2 years ago
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Cake day: March 23rd, 2024

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  • Tbh I just grabbed it off Wikipedia and now looking at the source (landline poll by Ukrainian professor with Canadian money and text full of nationalist prose) I believe these numbers are exaggerated, but I also don’t think fully fantastical.

    Russian Wikipedia, while still libbed, tends to use better sources, and they cite studies that looked at language use on the internet.

    This one shows the ratio between mentions of speaking Ukrainian and Russian in profiles of Ukrainian users on Vkontakte (Russian Facebook), in 2015. Most of the country is bilingual, with exceptions being the Donbass, Crimea and far west.

    This one shows predominance of either the Russian or Ukrainian word for “news” in Google Trends, in 2011, 2015, 2020 and 2024.

    rant because my head hurts

    This one question is a nightmare because most data available is highly outdated and/or untrustworthy. After years of absorption of various polls and news articles, I can say this:

    • there has been a slow decline in Russian since the 1980s, starting in Western Ukraine, but Russian remained the language of mass media and business until recently;
    • outside Crimea and separatist-controlled parts of the Donbass, most Russian speakers held a “neither Putin nor Bandera” mentality, opposing the valorisation of the Banderites but saying Russia didn’t represent their interests either and supporting the language status quo;
    • how language determines ethnic and national identity has been constantly changing and it’s a big mess where you can’t assume things about one based on the other, especially now;
    • there was a massive shift away from Russian to Ukrainian in all spheres of life at least from 2022 to 2024, as well as an inversion of attitudes towards Stepan Bandera

    But even that last point may be outdated now: patriotic fervour is fading and support for the government is crumbling, which might very well be causing people to lose motivation and more often speak in “colloquial” Russian again. It would explain the sudden influx of stories like kids in Kiev/Kyjiv hearing more Russian than Ukrainian in some schools.


  • I think you are putting words in my mouth. The graph I showed is only of native speakers, I already know that there’s a lot of bilingualism and code-switching eg. speaking Ukrainian at home but Russian at work. I only brought up this graph because you claimed “only in the West is Ukrainian spoken natively”, which isn’t true: most Ukrainians in the south and some in the Donbass do, but public life has historically been conducted in Russian. Russian is also more prevalent in big cities anywhere: while Lviv Oblast on this map had only 3.8% native Russian speakers, the city of Lviv had closer to 10% at the time. In my other comment I showed a map of “creole Russo-Ukrainian” that shows lower percentages in the Donbass, implying a more purely Russian public life.

    I’ve spent lots of time looking at ethnic and linguistic maps of the world in my spare time, curious to look beyond the political lines on a map. So I’m very aware of the ways linguistic maps can give the illusion of sharp language divisions.














  • UN News has this nonsense:

    Borderline revolt [ kelly ]

    Ukraine said it supported efforts to correct historical distortions affecting Africa and other parts of the Global South but objected to the way some maps using Equal Earth depict Ukrainian territory occupied by Russia.

    Its representative warned that endorsing the projection without adequate safeguards could open a “Pandora’s box,” allowing maps to create ambiguity over disputed territories.

    The European Union supported the resolution but addressed the same concern.

    Speaking on behalf of the bloc, Ireland stressed that the measure applied only to the relative size of landmasses and had no bearing on sovereignty, territorial status or internationally recognized borders.

    The bloc also said its support did not constitute an endorsement of the maps displayed on the Equal Earth website.

    The “Pandora’ Box” in question: