Hi all,
I’ve been typing on the first keyboard I ever bought for about 7 years now (Sharkoon Skiller Pro +) and, after trying out some of the shiny mechanical keyboards my friends bought over the years (Roccat Vulkan Pro, Steelseries Apex Pro, etc), decided I wanted a new keyboard as well.
I’ve done a little research on keyboards as a whole and have a few favorites, but recently I came across ergonomic keyboards, such as shown in this community. Now, I’m unsure wether I want to go with a traditional board (my top candidate is the Meletix Zoom98 with Morandi Switches) or try something completely different.
I’m looking for stories and advice right now, to get the most out of the money i’m willing to spend on a keyboard (buying multiple is not an option at the price point of for example the Zoom98).
Looking forward to this :)
- if you’re willing to put in build time, you can get ergo kits for a fair bit cheaper than assembled boards
- look for options with hotswap sockets – can reuse switches across boards without the hassle of desoldering
- socket the microcontroller – same reason, can reuse across boards after flashing with new firmware
- if you’re willing to take your time, you can stage things out as a progression (ie. don’t purchase everything at once)
- FoldKB – introduction to split and ortholinear but uses a standard set of keycaps (no hunting ortho, ergo, or 40s sets)
- Iris, Lily58, or Sofle RGB – “large” split ergos, introduction to a gentle columnar stagger
- Corne/CRKBD – the most popular mid-sized split ergo, easy to find kits, cases, or order your own PCBs
- Ferris Sweep, Swoop, DASBOB, KLOR, or Waterfowl – down into the realm of small ergo splits, much more focus on setting up firmware to meet your needs
- A. dux, Hummingbird, Totem, Flea, Piano – the field of hyper-specialized ergo splits (the fringe)
- FlatFootFox’s Design a Keyboard tutorial – learn enough Ergogen and KiCAD to design your own completely customized board
- Golem.hu’s Split keyboard database – pretty much the most extensive list of what’s out there (and just how large the field has grown)
This is all good advice but I would say if you’re willing (and interested) to try a “40s” like board, the corne (at least in 6 column version) is fairly accessible and is very popular so looking for ideas about how to make your keymap won’t be difficult. And also boardsource now has a fully assembled version of the corne (no soldering).
That is to say, cerement described a very reasonable progression, but if you don’t mind feeling like you don’t know how to type for a bit you can jump into anything that is interesting to you, and many folks agree that smaller boards are more comfortable to type on.
I must say It’s daunting to reduce the amount of keys that much, since I’m used to full-size. Then again, I use the numpad mostly to control foobar2000 (music), which should be easily balanced with a thumb-activated additional layer in a board such as the corne. I can’t seem to find the fully assembled version of the corne, but the unicorne is assemblable without soldering. Would you recommend low-profile switches? I have absolutely no experience typing on those so I’d be interested to know what the difference feels like.
- additional considerations
- low profile switches versus regular switches
- people like the ergonomics better for low profile but (as @pixls mentioned) selection for switches and (especially) keycaps is still very limited
- keywells – shaped boards instead of flat – Glove80, Dactyl Manuform family – ie. keeping key position right at the arc of travel of your fingertips
- low profile switches versus regular switches
- another option I just remembered (one that’s really popular with the ZSA Moonlander)
- pick up one of the larger boards with hotswap sockets (Iris, Lily58, Sofle, Moonlander, Voyager) and start with a full layout
- over time start removing keycaps and switches, remap your keybindings to fit the remaining keys
- can try out the smaller layouts without having to invest in more boards until you find your comfort spot
Also, the Moonlander has people saying the tenting is uncomfortable, and to go with the ergodox ez instead… I’m just unsure because there is so many to choose from, but most of them are so expensive that I’d have to buy one and stick with it for years to come.
- tenting is a very subjective choice – and once you start worrying about optimizing tenting, then you start looking at keywell keyboards and figuring out how to optimize the generation parameters for your own Dactyl …
- Keebio might be a better starting point over ZSA – most of their boards are sold as kits but with the SMD soldering taken care of so you just have to worry about assembly
- it’s perfectly okay to plan to stick to one keyboard for a few years – switching from a regular keyboard to a columnar stagger keyboard is going to take time, learning layers is going to take time, learning a new layout will take time – this is a personal journey to find your comfort spot
- you also have people who decide to head in the opposite direction offering their opinions on maximizing your ergonomic layouts (Xah Lee seems to be enjoying the larger size of the Glove80 currently)
Every single one of my coworkers who had an ergodox ez now has a moonlander and they are unanimously happy with the upgrade. Tenting is at least an option with the moonlander.
I have the falba redox which is very similar to both layouts and is by far the best tenting on any keyboard I own. Might be a third option if you’re seriously considering the other two.
Link since formatting isn’t working: https://falba.tech/product/redox-full-assembly-services-of-keyboard-pcb-arduino-electronics-and-cable-etc/
Oh man, you just reminded me I have a glove80 in a box untouched somewhere. Does Lemmy have the equivalent of a mech marketplace? I should sell it lmao.
Another thing: I use Blender. Is it possible / feasible to reduce key count that much when blender has this huge amount of keyboard shortcuts? I think if I were to buy an ergo keyboard, I’d gravitate towards the moonlander for this reason.
- similar to using a phone keyboard, everything goes in layers – once you get into the 30% or “small” range, more effort is put into “optimizing” your layout than even into designing the ideal physical layout – you have Ben Vallack doing production work on an 18-key split and people coding on steno keyboards
- but since everything is on layers, you can dedicate an additional layer to something like just Blender shortcuts (and one to just Photoshop shortcuts and one to just Python coding and so on)
- this is not a fast journey and I would not recommend jumping into the deep immediately with a Hummingbird – start with something like a Moonlander and slowly acclimate yourself to removing keys and offloading things onto layers, customizing those layers to your needs
- as an aside, a lot of people who go down the rabbit hole also use the chance to move away from QWERTY as well, with Colemak-DH being a popular alternative – the context switching between learning Colemak on columnar and keeping QWERTY on row-stagger often is enough to not mess up muscle memory
- additional considerations
My two cents:
Choc (low profile) switches are awesome for portable keyboards, but if you lean tactile, it’s going to be hard to find a satisfying switch. Khail sunsets are the closest I’ve come to my cherished Zealio V2s. I’d recommend looking around for a sample pack.
Two more cents:
I switched from a lily to a pinky3 a year or two ago and thought the same thing about reducing keys. It was a slight adjustment at first but I absolutely love it now. Typing on a 4 row keyboard is slightly annoying to me at this point. Why should I have to move my fingers so far just to type a single number? I found that having a number layer across the top row and a right side num pad connecting to where the 7 - 8 - 9 is on that row has been wonderful.
The unicorne is what I was thinking of, fully assembled in terms of the PCB (other than switches) which is less common for these boards. I’ve personally started to like low profile switches a lot, the reduced travel works really well for ergonomic layouts reducing finger movement. I will say they are not as refined as some of the recent mx style switches in terms of feel and sound, but ones like the sunset tactile switches are very good. Keycaps being the other limiting factor, chocs use different keycaps and there are not a lot of excellent options at the moment, but there are enough decent options that they’re usable.
- if you’re willing to put in build time, you can get ergo kits for a fair bit cheaper than assembled boards
I believe most people here with ergonomic keyboards have one either because they are already experiencing pain, or are trying to prevent it.
I got one trying to prevent it (Glove80), but I ended up liking the keyboard for other reasons.
It’s much more comfortable for me, extremely customizable - Interchangeable keycaps, programmable with ZMK, easy to change the tilt and tent, etc.
And I ended up really liking the low profile choc switches.It depends on what you’re looking for in a keyboard.
Well, there also are people like me, who use it because it’s a productivity beast and being able to have control over everything while barely even moving your hands feels great. I never had much trouble with pain or discomfort unless I was typing with my full speed for extended periods. I tend to get tensed up easily, so then it was a problem. Otherwise, I was fine. Just wanted to see whether small keyboards are as cool as people make them. Hell yeah, they’re even cooler.
I think getting a bigger ortho board like for example Atreus62 with the intention of removing keys and seeing what’s your preferred layout is gonna be, is the best way to go about it. It’s probably not gonna be your final board (endgame is a lie) so don’t spend a fortune on it.
That’s neat.
I’ve built a Sweep and a Fifi, which were very nice, but I found them too limiting. Especially for gaming.
Maybe with enough time it would’ve worked, I’ve seen people with some crazy layouts specifically optimized to their workflow. But the Glove80 also ended up being more comfortable so I’ll be sticking to it.Next stage for me would be adding a pointing device to the keyboard and then I’m set.
