I had a very entertaining time asking search engine AI about various bacteria when writing an open book exam.
Ask how X bacteria acts in the oral cavity, and the AI summary calls it a beneficial species
Ask how X bacteria relates to periodontal disease, and the AI summary tells you it is a pathogen of utmost importance.
It answers solely based on how you pose the question and does not even provide an accurate summary of the websites it purports to have used as sources.
I already immediately left a veterinarian for using AI as part of its xray diagnosis process, which may even be somewhat acceptable since computer vision is relatively mature. Fuck if I’m lasting 5 mins with a human doctor that utters the letters “AI.”
I can’t speak for veterinary, but in dentistry AI can be problematic because:
A) it really over-diagnoses - it’s very very sensitive, meaning that it identifies things that aren’t necessarily clinically relevant
B) it does not compare to previous radiographs, so it cannot give reasonable clinical judgement on whether decay is active or arrested.
It could be a helpful tool to give you a laundry list of places to check. However, I’ve used demo software and did not find it added anything for me, although I have 15 years experience. You still need to use your clinical judgement.
I do worry about the younger clinicians being over-reliant on it, as they have it pushed on them by multi-practice dental corporations.
Ya an LLM is very different than a vision based machine learning /trained visual model on something specific like x-rays.
Now, if its just a LLM looking at an xray image, that’s another story, and it could’ve been that too.
Exactly. Imagery is my field so them just saying “AI X-ray analysis” instead of something more specific or scientific didn’t inspire confidence.
Elon Musk’s AI recommends Ivermectin and anal bleaching, because it’s biased. I don’t care if what I said was true.
But it is biased.
Imagine doctors using the same AI that convinced that poor, lonely guy to kill himself!
I just wanna know how much the AI lobbyists gave him to say that…
That’s Reid Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn and a major investor in at least one “AI” company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Hoffman?wprov=sfti1
Oh, so that’s why LinkedIn has so much AI spam.
Just…read the text that’s there?
The LinkedIN cofounder now has an AI drug discovery startup…
He’s on LinkedIn, it’s probably free so he can convince the AI daddies to notice him
We should ask AI if tech CEOs are worth keeping around despite the negative impacts of AI construction and implementation.
Reid Hoffman: the original LinkedIn Lunatic
Y’all will screech but having a giant ass search engine that is able to process patient data in context is incredibly useful.
Y’all are just prejudice. Professionals will be using these tools and they already have been providing excellent real world results. Honestly, if you don’t understand how the medical community is using AI/ml with real validated results, you should be keeping your mouth shut on the topic.
Hmmm a 1 day-old account rushing in to defend inappropriate LLM use 🤔
You can only get banned for an opinion so much before moving on to the next one 🤷♂️.
Yes, people are banned for their opinions… not for breaking the rules.
Yes. All the time.
Nice, ban evasion as well 👍🏻
Yup. Account age is an utterly pointless and a shitty evaluation tool. Unless you’re just looking to attach a person rather than the idea 🤷♂️. Just creates little shitty echo chambers to attach yourself to.
And fedverse makes it literally impossible to stop. Tech bros really not thinking through how people think, act, and build trust.
Did it feel good reporting me? Do you feel effective?
Tech bros really not thinking through how people think, act, and build trust.
Weren’t you literally just defending LLMs?
What’s with all these brand new accounts lately that seem to have been created for the sole purpose of defending AI.
GTFO you Altman propaganda bot.
Yeah this site has been positively overrun by pro-AI commenters. And it’s a recent phenomenon.
Maybe people are using it 🤷♂️
Say the line Bart!
“Everyone I didn’t agree with is a bot”
Lemmy has a massive problem with bot accounts, astroturfing, and ban evasion that no one really wants to admit. Right wing propaganda is also becoming much more common on the fediverse. As much as people like to bash other social media and say lemmy / the fediverse is immune to this stuff, it really isn’t. Being smaller just means it takes longer to spread here, but it definitely has started.
Ahhh the, everyone I disagree with is a Nazi or bot. Solid.
having a giant ass search engine that is able to process patient data in context is incredibly useful.
Yeah. Wouldn’t that be nice. That’s not what an LLM is, however.
Why did you assume AI = only LLM? LLMs are just one type of AI, and not the type most often used in medicine
Reid Hoffman is one of those lunatics who thinks LLMs are intelligent. His entire thing is peddling that shit.
LLMs being “search engines” is also a really popular misconception.
I didn’t know the guy, I was just addressing the general point of using AI in medicine tbh 🤷♀️
You’re completely correct that LLMs are not search engines, of course
So then I guess you shouldn’t have lead with:> but having a giant ass search engineSay what you mean and mean what you say or you’re just spouting shit that no one will listen to.that wasn’t me?! I was just replying to the bit about conflating AI with LLMs, like I was saying 😭
Oh jeeze, my apologies, poor attention paying on my part. Please carry on.
👌👍
This takes away from slowing down to learn core medical skills. Hospitals and clinics will have some bean counter enforce it’s use for speed and to meet quotas but ignore that sometimes important problems just require time with a patient.
My assumption is that these tools won’t be used for the doctors benefit but for administration to push expectations that will result in a worse level of care between a patient and doctor. They already have and will continue to become mandatory and that’s a problem if it pushes away good doctors who don’t need them.
The best work I’ve seen anywhere is from people who know their job so well, they don’t have to look something up. They troubleshoot it without sitting at a computer or opening their phone, but drawing on experience they gained because they put in the time to understand instead of something shitting it into their lap.
If LLMs didn’t hallucinate I’d fully agree with you
Which is why your doctor should use it as a tool and validate the results. You know, do their job.
Y’all are just fucking binary. How do you think medical and community members work now? They use a shitty search engine or portal to look up material, and yes, some of it will be garbage they need to wade through.
But God forbid they have a tool that puts that information into a cited overview to supplement a tricky diagnosis. The prejudice and fake workflows that y’all invent is crazy. Looking for little edge cases everywhere catching the AI in a mistake
I have no problem with them using search engines. They can vet and choose answers from reliable sources. From an LLM, it’s anybody’s guess if anything it pulled up is correct, and a less experienced doctor could be misled into making a dangerous mistake.
When was the last time you used them? They can provide sources for pretty much everything they say and that source usually also contains said thing too.
But even if not, even back 2 years ago, it was already good because you had a second look, a different perspective. A medical professional can either know little about everything or much about next to nothing. It should be really obvious how such a tool can help, even if it can not reach expert level.
“Don’t worry, when you ask it for sources it gives you some. Sometimes they are even real! And sometimes the real ones even say the thing they were supposed to have said from the AI!”
Fucking lunacy.
Riiiiiiiiiight, LLMs don’t cite sources and the portals written in the 90s for journals solve all of that.
It’s so amazing to watch you all invent these crazy scenarios, where you’ve chosen the absolute lowest bar you can find. As if some layman who has no clue how to use this tool is working on some free Claude account because you read about one shitty doctor or lawyer fucking up. It’s honestly sad seeing these hoops to jump through.
Professional tools, run by some of the most educated type a professionals in the planet minimize and reduce these risks by providing defaults and interfaces along with education.
FFS they can (and will) kill you accidentally with far more simple shit that can’t be mostly mitigated away. But yeah, because LLMs can be used poorly by morons it’s worthless 🙄.
As if some layman who has no clue how to use this tool is working on some free Claude account because you read about one shitty doctor or lawyer fucking up
Do you know what happens when doctors fuck up?
Like, I don’t think this is the slam dunk reply that you think it is.
I’m pretty sure I’d care if thought you could read. I addressed your question.
Using their institutional knowledge, and critical thinking to wade through unrelated search results is not the same as asking a sycophantic chat bot that’s programmed to always answer with complete confidence whether it’s right or wrong
I absolutely love that you all think that there are only these models designed to make you like the product. It’s like watching Republicans scream to the world how ignorant you are. Everything is a chatbot to you all 😂
I love that you keep saying that with no proof to back up a claim. Which chatbot do you use then? And if you don’t say exactly which chatbot you use everyone will know you’re a stupid liar.
I ask LLMs medical questions almost daily and it gets it wrong most of the time. Do I have data or a study to back this claim up, no, but if you check the sources (Perplexity) you can just see the wrong interpretation of studies or disreputable web content sources (county fair science projects, Reddit, quack websites)
It’s sometimes useful for general knowledge if you really don’t care that it might be wrong, but I’m not sure when this would be the case with medical advice
The confidence with which LLMs misstate facts and my inability to know which of my healthcare workers is blindly trusting of these tools makes it dangerous
Well I’m sure free chatgpt is the best we can do 😂
Where did I say chatgpt?
Using AI as a tool to find additional information? Sure, could be doable maybe.
Asking sycophantic ”you’re absolutely correct” machines for second opinion? Absolutely not!
Hoffman is advocating for the latter.
Imagine believing that they’ll use general purpose free chatgpt. Just amazing these scenarios you all invent. I can’t tell if it’s just straight blind prejudice or you all really don’t understand how it can integrate into tooling with very specific models.
Just wild what people have cooked up in their mental model.
They literally do. ChatGPT and Copilot. I work medical field adjacent, and these are what the providers use. Not cooked up in a mental model, witnessed directly.
Take note that I’m only replying to refute your ignorance. I’m not going to engage with whatever AI generated ragebait vitriol you spew at me.
Will those are the idiots who were already lazy and going to kill you 🤷♂️
There is proper tooling, and they should be learning to use it.
Further proof you can’t read
Y’all will screech but having a giant ass search engine that is able to process patient data in context is incredibly useful.
Exsqueeze me, but if my doctor wants to search for giant asses, then he needs to do it on his own time.
Hi Reid
AI has helped me in medical issues far more than my lame Dr
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards immediately came to mind.
Older adults have always made a fool of themselves when new tech comes out as they scramble over each other to either voice dramatically out-of-touch opinions or avoid it entirely while preaching moral panic. This time around with AI, there’s not a big financial barrier to access so the youth are equally in on the game.
The Luddites were right, and so are we.
Nah, I work in AI for medicine we have lots of data that it does actually help.
My work specifically looks at images from scans (mostly MRI and X-ray) to diagnose conditions (mostly respiratory) before even senior doctors are able to reliably diagnose it. It’s already out working in the world and has saved hundreds of people’s lives already.
I also have friends that work in AI diagnosis and they have similar success and just save doctors a ton of time.
That’s an ML application, not random text generators.
There’s a difference between properly trained single purpose models and LLMs
It is very curious rhetorical move from:
If your doctor isn’t using AI, they are incompetent and awful and should be considered malpractice
to
We shouldn’t be forcing these Big Government Regulations on the itty bitty small bean doctors who just want to help people
Techno-Libertarianism in a nutshell. It is never a serious analysis of best practices and procedures. Always some hollow appeal to legalism out of one side of the mouth and denouncement of bureaucracy out of the other. And all in pursuit of selling a new line of magic fucking beans to the rubes.
Counting the days until Dr. Oz is talking about LLMs like he talks about ginseng and acai berry juice.
People purposefully misunderstanding the concept of a “second opinion” and not having used an LLM since the original ChatGPT. 🙄
purposefully misunderstanding the concept of a “second opinion”
The premise of a second opinion is that the secondary voice demonstrates core competencies in a specific field of study.
not having used an LLM since the original ChatGPT
4.0 is the one that has been driving celebrities insane with its endless stream of sycophancy. LLMs have grown progressively worse over time. In part due to modern models training against their own slop and in part due to marketing teams kicking actual developers out of the drivers’ seat to sell more tokens.
The last fucking thing medical specialists need is an algorithm to inflate their own egos.
I prefer getting my second opinions from a trained medical professional and not a chatbot. I’m weird like that.
The number of competent experts who are impressed by an LLM wielded in their specified field, is as vanishingly infinitesimal as legitimate and justifiable invocations of the term ‘AI’.
Those who have expressed the greatest enthusiasm for ‘AI’ are typically the farthest removed from actual, nuanced comprehension.
It’s a grift economy built on statistically luke-warm, vibe lobotomised corpses.
That’s LinkedIn for you. Just corporate felating in the desperate hopes a CEO will notice you
You know that technology that suggested a deadly mix of drugs to a teen? The same one that routinely suggests people should kill themselves? Your doctor should ignore their years of medical training and see what spicy autocorrect thinks your treatment should be.
