I don’t understand how they are supposed to “sell your data” if you just never use a Mozilla account and uncheck all the telemetry. Its not like they can secretly steal your data, since its Open Source.
It seems to me like just more FUD that Google is spreading to undermine our trust in free software.
I’m a software developer, and understand the technicalities and options available to me. I am capable of forking Firefox and make myself a custom build with anything I don’t like stripped out. (Capable of, not wanting to.)
They removed “We don’t sell your data and we never will” from their FAQ and they added “We may sell your data” to the ToS.
I am unhappy about this change. It is a clear sign that the people in charge of Firefox want to sell user data, and that the irrecoverable enshittification path has been chosen. It means that at some point in the next few years, I can’t trust Firefox’ with my privacy. And they sure as fuck don’t have anything else going for them: The browser eats memory and freezes my camera during video conferencing, and is plain not supported in some of the software I use at work.
The rationale is probably something entirely reasonable, like “While we do not intend to sell user data, the phrasing was too vague and not helpful. What is selling, and what is user data, really?” An organization with strong privacy values would be so far from anything “bad” that the phrasing as it was would not be a problem for them.
It’s irrelevant that right now privacy settings and xyz and telmentry is clear and opt in etc. Because the point is that they are gearing up to change that. The settings will be less clear, user data will be separated into shit like “operability assistance”, “personal information”, “experience improvement metrics” with some of it enabled by default because, etc.
The rationalization they have given is that legally, they may have been seeking data all along, as some jurisdictions define it extremely loosely.
For example, if you use their translation feature, they are sending the page your looking at (data) to a third party, which provides a benefit to Mozilla. Thats technically a sale in some laws, but most would agree that is acceptable given the user asked for it to happen.
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/update-on-terms-of-use/
I’m overall concerned with Mozilla, but not sure this is malicious yet. But definitely needs to be closely scrutinized.
Here’s the crux of the problem.
Mozilla went from “explicitly not malicious” to “probably not malicious yet.”
What’s next?
Yup. And it doesn’t help that they have been throwing away good will for a while now, with their crypto/AI/etc bandwagon jumping. They are still the least worst option, as I dont trust the forks either, but its getting hard to trust them.
Anything you say after this point is irrelevant. (Nothing personal, though.)
As soon as a company has to rationalise their legal back-pedalling, it is explicit evidence that they are intending to do wrong.
This will not end well.
If the legal definition of a term has changed such that their current activities now fall under it, changing the terms of use legal document does make sense.
They are pretty clear that under California law, they are “selling” data. They have two options, keep the ToU document the same, and try meet the new laws requirements (which as I’ve said in other comments, seems impossible for a browser - not a lawyer though), or update their ToU without changing their current behaviors.
They have gone with the latter, but it does also allow them to be far more “evil”. Its definitely the first step down a bad road, time will tell if they go further.
If you want to play it safe, block their domains via pihole: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Websites/Domain_List/Mozilla_Owned
Having seen this FAR too often, I have a different view:
Capitalism and greed will determine when they go further.
There is no “if” about it. Mitchell Baker is in it to get rich by destroying the platform, and is sharing enough of the corpse’s leavings with others to make sure they protect her.
I’m aware that history is against them. The one thing in Firefox’s (not Mozilla) favour is that its open source. The browser and codebase will live on even if Mozilla crashes and burns.
The forks already exist, the only “moat” that Mozilla has is trust and goodwill, which they are burning rapidly.
I know that software is a very different industry, but Mountain Equipment Co-Op went through this in Canada. The end result is that the new Mountain Equipment Company is a for-profit, US-owned reseller of overseas crap, just like everyone else.
The problem I see is that browsers are still evolving significantly, and I’m worried about what will happen if Mozilla goes T-U. Sure we have the code, but will it continue to be developed after that point?
This has happened before in the software world, and its usually not a huge deal after a little bit of rockiness.
OpenOffice->LibreOffice. ddwrt->openwrt->tomato etc.
Development will continue, but maybe in a less resourced fashion.
The current intention may not be malicious, but it leaves the way open for changes that are to slip in. If they were worried about services like translation being concidered ‘sales’, which is a reasonable concern, they should have split them out of the core browser into an extension and put the ‘might sell your data’ licence on that.
Yeah, its definitely wide open for abuse now. But the California law also seems way too vague as well. What about DNS lookup? That takes a users input and transfers it to someone else, is that a “sale”? Can hardly start separating that out of the browser? Http requests? Its all users initiated, but is it a “sale” in California? Not a lawyer, haven’t a clue.