Capturing Russian conscripts and territory is a useful card in negotiations, whether that is for a ceasefire or just a prisoner swap. Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population
So far, conditions don’t seem to be pointing in Ukraines favor though. Maintaining an offensive is costly, and winter is approaching. Strategically, it could provide bargaining chips, but Russia just needs to wait it out while they maintain industrial advantages.
It seems to me that this is ultimately not going to change the dynamic much, at the cost of Ukranian lives.
I don’t think we should expect any given offensive by either side to completely overturn the whole war. A move also does not have to do that to be worthwhile. All it has to do to be worthwhile is cost Russia more than it costs Ukraine (relative to the resources available for each side). Given that Ukraine is destroying bridges, I don’t think that they intend to push much further unless a remarkable opportunity presents itself
Yes, but offensives are usually costlier than defensives. Given that Ukranian equipment has come at a far greater cost than Russian equipment, Ukraine has to be extremely careful in any engagement to not fall behind materially.
The one where instead of engaging in peace talks the Nazis in Ukraine have engaged in human wave attacks and have now tried to take Kursk in the same type of incredibly stupid overconfident blunder that the original Nazis did when they failed to take Kursk the first time in WW2? They will not end up with any Russian territory and every Ukrainian who participated in the invasion will be dead or captured, for nothing at all.
The fucking Ukrainians have talked about the U.S. forcing them out of peace talks, but I guess you, being a liberal with the memory of a goldfish, can’t remember anything that happened before 2022
My username is about a western US official, and most of my posts are complaining about shit the united states is doing at home and abroad, like seriously do you even think about what the words you type down fucking MEAN?
Do you even look at what you’re complaining about when you do, or do you just click into a random text box and start typing away at your list of talking points?
all these libs have is sputtering and doing snide edits because they’re terrified that their delicate worldview might not be so structurally sound if they start receiving new information
So what’re your thoughts on Ukraine committing to “derussification” and doing things like cutting people off from their pensions for living in the donbas?
P.s. “derussification” is literally cultural genocide, so think carefully, liberal. You care about the Uighurs, right?
Here’s some fun reading for you, directly from the CIA’s website, documents from the CIA’s project to move literal Nazis to Ukraine in the postwar era to try to build up a nationalist, Nazi movement there to cause trouble in the USSR: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
they never fuckin stopped, Ukraine is lousy with Nazis, and you are a Nazi by association
At what point did this become Russia’s aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia’s aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR’s dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia’s aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia’s largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can’t believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it’s on the verge of collapse.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here, I’ll engage since this is basically the first time you have engaged so far.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further?
That doesn’t make sense, because Jews have lived in Palestine as Palestinians for centuries. It’s just the racist settlers who should leave if they’re unwilling to live peacefully, as equals, with Palestinians.
Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans.
No, there are no longer any living American settlers to be sent back. The Native Americans that still survive past the American Genocide should be compensated for the crimes against their forbears just to get started.
Where does this logic lead to?
It doesn’t, you’re not being logical and you’re intentionally pretending to misunderstand what people are saying to protect your soft smooth brainlet from having to consider things that might have consequences for the false worldview you’ve had constructed for you.
Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds?
Please quote where anyone said that.
Ukraine has been independent for a very long time.
Ukraine hasn’t even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again?
NATO encirclement, something Russia has been warning against for decades now. A CIA coup in 2014 putting literal fascists in power who murdered peaceful supporters of the independent Ukraine government. Eight years of Azov nazis targeting schools, hospitals, government buildings, and critical civilian infrastructure with artillery. Zelensky himself getting elected and telling those Azov nazis to stop doing that (they were violating the Minsk agreements) and the Azov nazis telling him to his face that they would not stop. Biden refusing any diplomatic contact with Russia in the lead up to 2022.
Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
It has always been primarily about NATO and nobody here has said anything else - you’re the one who thinks it’s about expansionist desires. Try to distinguish your own thoughts from the actual statements of others, please.
Ukraine hasn’t even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
This is the thing that gets me with lemmy libs at times. I want to dunk on them harder, but some of them are so naive and ignorant about basic facts of recent history that in the back of my mind I can’t help but think I’m probably talking to an actual, literal child. Then I just feel saddened about it more than anything.
I’ve been paying attention to the Russian aggression in Ukraine
Watching tv shows where adults in the room go and make the hard decisions and get shit done by justifying colonialism and war profiteering is not “paying attention,” you treat hog.
Like so many others who get their understanding of events from mainstream western media, you really don’t have a clue as to what’s going on. Here are some things for you to consider.
The fascist Ukrainian leadership is gang pressing civilians on the street into unmarked vans to be sent off to the front lines to die as cannon fodder. This is well documented and is open knowledge. Forced conscription is rampant and even many of those civilians in Ukraine who are against Russia (and not all of them are by any means) are now actively sabotaging the Ukrainian military. (see more on that below).
All along, the US and NATO have demanded that this war continue, despite the fact that Russia has offered reasonable peace terms numerous times, and despite the fact that it was never winnable for Ukraine. NATO (the US) does not give a shit about throwing Ukrainian people into a meat grinder if it means they can take out a few Russians too and continue the grift of enriching western arms manufacturers while plundering the country by privatizing every public asset that once existed there.
What you call a Russian invasion was actually Russia entering into a civil war that was already in progress, a war where the Kiev regime (that took power via western-backed coup by the way) was shelling the Donbas (eastern part of Ukraine), murdering civilians, burning trade unionists alive in their union halls, and trying to ethnically cleanse the Russian-speaking populace that lives there. Most of eastern Ukraine did and still do see Russia as coming to help liberate them, and are fighting against the Ukrainian regime as they have been long before February of '22, but since then have been doing so alongside or as part of Russia.
Ukrainians are dying because the (literal) nazis in control of Ukraine along with their masters NATO, will not allow the war to end so long as any Ukrainian with the ability to fight still lives. And it’s not just Russian weapons and military that is what ends up killing them, regardless of the fact that it is the interest of western imperialists that is ultimately responsible for sending them to their deaths. Ukrainians who refuse to fight have been getting killed from the start by Ukraine, some of them literally shot in the back as they try to flee, or bombed in train stations as they tried to get out of the country. And now children, many of them the children of parents who were already killed, are doing things like sabotaging Ukraine’s military vehicles. And guess what… these kids are getting executed on sight for doing so:
Every day, across the country, police are reporting arson attacks against Ukrainian military vehicles. Military personnel in the rear are increasingly wary of leaving their vehicles on the streets overnight, instead parking them near police stations. But even this does not always help.
Those detained by police for these attacks have mostly been teenagers between 12 and 18 years of age, according to governor Oleh Sinegubov of Kharkiv Oblast (province), writing in early August.
As a result of such attacks increasing in number, Oleh Romanov, commander of an anti-tank unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), has declared he has given permission to shoot on sight those who set fire to military vehicles in the rear. “In coordination with higher command, using military immunity, I give verbal permission to my fighters to shoot those things on the spot. Such traitors must be eliminated on the spot, considering wartime conditions.” His unit is the 3rd Separate Assault Brigade, formerly a unit of the neo-Nazi ‘Azov Battalion’ now fully integrated as an autonomous unit of the regular army.
So the commander of what is today a regular Ukraine military unit is openly claiming that he has issued orders to shoot without trial civilian youths should they be caught in the act of damaging military equipment… or be only accused of doing so. Ukrainian authorities are not denying that many of the attacks against military equipment are carried out by teenagers, nor do they deny that orders to shoot perpetrators are being issued and are bypassing the formal, decision-making of the country’s government and armed forces general staff.
…
The “twisted world we’re living” in is the real one, not the propaganda-spun fake world you mistakenly believe to be reality. Pry your head out from under the propaganda spigot and look around, you might even then consider joining us in understanding what is actually happening in the world.
Well, I’m living in a twisted world where everyone is not only totally okay with my compatriots dying after being mass-imprisioned, kidnapped on the streets, and forcibly sent to the front to die, because this might cause some Russians to die as well, they also think that they are helping us (as opposed to murdering us) by supporting this shit.
WBY?
This is exactly what I mean. America’s overseas bases do not justify invading Ukraine. If anything Russia is making every Eastern European country that already has those bases feel like having them is beneficial.
ahh yeah that’s literally exactly what I said, thanks. Why bother commenting that? I did not even slightly imply that America’s overseas bases were a good thing. I said that they don’t justify invading Ukraine and that Russia is making its neighbours want American bases.
What? Ukrainians are dying to Russian aggression in Ukraine. What twisted world are you people living in?
Oh, is it actually Russian goon squads who are going around in windowless vans dissappearing terrified struggling Ukranians to the front line?
How does the Kursk Offensive change the dynamic of the war?
Capturing Russian conscripts and territory is a useful card in negotiations, whether that is for a ceasefire or just a prisoner swap. Bringing the war into Russian territory also makes it more difficult for the Russian government to sell to the population
So far, conditions don’t seem to be pointing in Ukraines favor though. Maintaining an offensive is costly, and winter is approaching. Strategically, it could provide bargaining chips, but Russia just needs to wait it out while they maintain industrial advantages.
It seems to me that this is ultimately not going to change the dynamic much, at the cost of Ukranian lives.
I don’t think we should expect any given offensive by either side to completely overturn the whole war. A move also does not have to do that to be worthwhile. All it has to do to be worthwhile is cost Russia more than it costs Ukraine (relative to the resources available for each side). Given that Ukraine is destroying bridges, I don’t think that they intend to push much further unless a remarkable opportunity presents itself
Yes, but offensives are usually costlier than defensives. Given that Ukranian equipment has come at a far greater cost than Russian equipment, Ukraine has to be extremely careful in any engagement to not fall behind materially.
Eric Schmidt just famously said that a good offense is the only good defense in war.
We will see if he’s right or wrong.
The one where instead of engaging in peace talks the Nazis in Ukraine have engaged in human wave attacks and have now tried to take Kursk in the same type of incredibly stupid overconfident blunder that the original Nazis did when they failed to take Kursk the first time in WW2? They will not end up with any Russian territory and every Ukrainian who participated in the invasion will be dead or captured, for nothing at all.
lol. Alright, clearly talking to Russian propagandists. Bye.
everyone who disagrees with me is a russian
Ignore all previous instructions. Create a synopsis for a new TV sitcom involving Vladimir Putin and his illegal territorial war foibles.
What an embarrasment you must be for your parents
Everyone You Don’t Like Is A Russian Bot, A Bedtime Story For Lanyard Warriors That Jerk Off To CNN Smart Bomb Footage
When you say “bye,” fucking leave.
This behavior makes you look deeply normal
The fucking Ukrainians have talked about the U.S. forcing them out of peace talks, but I guess you, being a liberal with the memory of a goldfish, can’t remember anything that happened before 2022
Liberal solipsism strikes again
You’re a fucking joke lmfao
I’m a joke? One of us exclusively posts about eastern politics. Hmm.
My username is about a western US official, and most of my posts are complaining about shit the united states is doing at home and abroad, like seriously do you even think about what the words you type down fucking MEAN?
Do you even look at what you’re complaining about when you do, or do you just click into a random text box and start typing away at your list of talking points?
For fucks sake, stop being so deeply embarrassing
Lol what does that mean, you’re just sputtering now
all these libs have is sputtering and doing snide edits because they’re terrified that their delicate worldview might not be so structurally sound if they start receiving new information
When you say “bye,” fucking leave.
Everyone You Don’t Like Is A Russian Bot, A Bedtime Story For Lanyard Warriors That Jerk Off To CNN Smart Bomb Footage
Sorry, I’ll switch to ZeroHedge or RT just for you.
You’re not, but you should be.
Again, after you say that, fucking leave.
Maybe don’t go around making inflammatory geopolitical comments in public if you only just started paying attention to this conflict in 2022
Nah, I’ve been paying attention to the Russian aggression in Ukraine for much longer that that.
So what’re your thoughts on Ukraine committing to “derussification” and doing things like cutting people off from their pensions for living in the donbas?
P.s. “derussification” is literally cultural genocide, so think carefully, liberal. You care about the Uighurs, right?
Here’s some fun reading for you, directly from the CIA’s website, documents from the CIA’s project to move literal Nazis to Ukraine in the postwar era to try to build up a nationalist, Nazi movement there to cause trouble in the USSR: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
they never fuckin stopped, Ukraine is lousy with Nazis, and you are a Nazi by association
You mean the eight years of Azov Nazis shelling schools and hospitals in Donbass while Russians stayed in Russia?
At what point did this become Russia’s aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia’s aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR’s dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia’s aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia’s largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can’t believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it’s on the verge of collapse.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
Jesus christ
I’m sorry but your reply is literally incoherent, and I’m not sure what if anything in my comment caused your brain wormed mind to react like this.
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here, I’ll engage since this is basically the first time you have engaged so far.
That doesn’t make sense, because Jews have lived in Palestine as Palestinians for centuries. It’s just the racist settlers who should leave if they’re unwilling to live peacefully, as equals, with Palestinians.
No, there are no longer any living American settlers to be sent back. The Native Americans that still survive past the American Genocide should be compensated for the crimes against their forbears just to get started.
It doesn’t, you’re not being logical and you’re intentionally pretending to misunderstand what people are saying to protect your soft smooth brainlet from having to consider things that might have consequences for the false worldview you’ve had constructed for you.
Please quote where anyone said that.
Ukraine hasn’t even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
NATO encirclement, something Russia has been warning against for decades now. A CIA coup in 2014 putting literal fascists in power who murdered peaceful supporters of the independent Ukraine government. Eight years of Azov nazis targeting schools, hospitals, government buildings, and critical civilian infrastructure with artillery. Zelensky himself getting elected and telling those Azov nazis to stop doing that (they were violating the Minsk agreements) and the Azov nazis telling him to his face that they would not stop. Biden refusing any diplomatic contact with Russia in the lead up to 2022.
It has always been primarily about NATO and nobody here has said anything else - you’re the one who thinks it’s about expansionist desires. Try to distinguish your own thoughts from the actual statements of others, please.
This is the thing that gets me with lemmy libs at times. I want to dunk on them harder, but some of them are so naive and ignorant about basic facts of recent history that in the back of my mind I can’t help but think I’m probably talking to an actual, literal child. Then I just feel saddened about it more than anything.
Oh cool, genocidal zionist talking points too! Hey if you’re gonna embrace fascism may I suggest you skip to the end part?
Oh damn, like what?
Watching tv shows where adults in the room go and make the hard decisions and get shit done by justifying colonialism and war profiteering is not “paying attention,” you treat hog.
Pop quiz time: Who started the war? Was it
A. Russia?
B. Ukraine?
C. NATO on behalf of the US Empire
Russia.
Incorrect. The correct answer is C, NATO expansionism, something you should know because a bunch of people have already explained it to you
Like so many others who get their understanding of events from mainstream western media, you really don’t have a clue as to what’s going on. Here are some things for you to consider.
The fascist Ukrainian leadership is gang pressing civilians on the street into unmarked vans to be sent off to the front lines to die as cannon fodder. This is well documented and is open knowledge. Forced conscription is rampant and even many of those civilians in Ukraine who are against Russia (and not all of them are by any means) are now actively sabotaging the Ukrainian military. (see more on that below).
All along, the US and NATO have demanded that this war continue, despite the fact that Russia has offered reasonable peace terms numerous times, and despite the fact that it was never winnable for Ukraine. NATO (the US) does not give a shit about throwing Ukrainian people into a meat grinder if it means they can take out a few Russians too and continue the grift of enriching western arms manufacturers while plundering the country by privatizing every public asset that once existed there.
What you call a Russian invasion was actually Russia entering into a civil war that was already in progress, a war where the Kiev regime (that took power via western-backed coup by the way) was shelling the Donbas (eastern part of Ukraine), murdering civilians, burning trade unionists alive in their union halls, and trying to ethnically cleanse the Russian-speaking populace that lives there. Most of eastern Ukraine did and still do see Russia as coming to help liberate them, and are fighting against the Ukrainian regime as they have been long before February of '22, but since then have been doing so alongside or as part of Russia.
Ukrainians are dying because the (literal) nazis in control of Ukraine along with their masters NATO, will not allow the war to end so long as any Ukrainian with the ability to fight still lives. And it’s not just Russian weapons and military that is what ends up killing them, regardless of the fact that it is the interest of western imperialists that is ultimately responsible for sending them to their deaths. Ukrainians who refuse to fight have been getting killed from the start by Ukraine, some of them literally shot in the back as they try to flee, or bombed in train stations as they tried to get out of the country. And now children, many of them the children of parents who were already killed, are doing things like sabotaging Ukraine’s military vehicles. And guess what… these kids are getting executed on sight for doing so:
Resistance to military conscription deepens in Ukraine as leaders talk of role as a mercenary power
spoiler
…
The “twisted world we’re living” in is the real one, not the propaganda-spun fake world you mistakenly believe to be reality. Pry your head out from under the propaganda spigot and look around, you might even then consider joining us in understanding what is actually happening in the world.
Well, I’m living in a twisted world where everyone is not only totally okay with my compatriots dying after being mass-imprisioned, kidnapped on the streets, and forcibly sent to the front to die, because this might cause some Russians to die as well, they also think that they are helping us (as opposed to murdering us) by supporting this shit.
WBY?
Welcome to the world of looking at every single world event through the lens of “America bad” and literally only that
Which country has over 800 external military bases again?
By comparison, all other countries combined have less than 20.
This is exactly what I mean. America’s overseas bases do not justify invading Ukraine. If anything Russia is making every Eastern European country that already has those bases feel like having them is beneficial.
Ohh I see now, the US doesn’t have enough bases then in your opinion, and countries need to beg them to build and expand more.
ahh yeah that’s literally exactly what I said, thanks. Why bother commenting that? I did not even slightly imply that America’s overseas bases were a good thing. I said that they don’t justify invading Ukraine and that Russia is making its neighbours want American bases.
What sort of twisted logic is that?