• 33550336@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      it creates biased impression that democracy is generally like this. it’s like showing that ussr sucked, so any leftist ideology must sucks too

      • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        That’s not how I read it… it’s not really democracy if the guy being voted for is lying to the voters without repercussion (thus obstructing the voters’ right to make an informed decision) so they can get into office and do things they know the voters wouldn’t have voted for. That’s anti-democratic in itself. This meme isn’t saying democracy bad, it’s saying that what we have now isn’t a democracy.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        Okay but the USSR didn’t suck, it was a good attempt at workers democracy with massive problems, but smaller problems than bourgeois democracy

        • 33550336@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Yes, it also helped to liberate woman and gave them more opportunities, decreased illiteracy and MASSIVE russian retardancy, but overall it sucked at many levels and from the very start:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror – look at the passage on tortures. This alone made me to despise USSR.

          • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            The red terror was much smaller than the white terror, and the torture is nothing that capitalist countries don’t do on the regular. I for one would like to decrease the amount of torture in the world.

            • 33550336@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Yeah, I’ve heard about the white terror. This does not justify people who supposedly wanted a better world. I am quite sure that now amount of torture in western countries is negligible when compared with China and North Korea, and mostly by intrinsic flaws of e.g. police than political causes. And yes, I’ve heard about exceptions as Guantanamo or Pinoshit. Actually Pinoshit and Franco should not be counted as nominal western mindset, since they are authoritarian fascist piece of shits. I despise all authoritarian despots equally, no matter fascist Franco or “communist” Stalin.

              • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                I am quite sure that now amount of torture in western countries is negligible when compared with China and North Korea

                This sounds like western chauvinism. Hoe can you be sure? The US has soo many blacksites, hell even local PDs have them.

                Guantanamo or Pinoshit. Actually Pinoshit and Franco should not be counted as nominal western mindset, since they are authoritarian fascist piece of shits.

                Pinochet was straight up supported by the west until it was too politically inconvenient, but by that time he’d already done his job of eradicating the left. Franco wouldn’t have won if it wasn’t for Britain, France, etc, enforcing “no arms and troops shipments” for the USSR but not for Italy and Germany. And they also weren’t willing to accept Spanish republican gold.

                I despise all authoritarian despots equally, no matter fascist Franco or “communist” Stalin.

                Hmm. One of these people was a dictator. The other was democratically elected and lead the industrialization of a society that allowed it to defeat the industrial superpower that was Germany and end the holocaust.

                • 33550336@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  This sounds like western chauvinism. Hoe can you be sure?

                  And how can you be sure? Given nontransparent smokescreen of all red imperialist countries like USSR, China and North Korea?

                  The other was democratically elected

                  Oh yes, USSR, the famous standard of democracy /s

                  end the holocaust

                  *replace it with the gulag system

                  • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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                    5 months ago

                    And how can you be sure? Given nontransparent smokescreen of all red imperialist countries like USSR, China and North Korea?

                    You call them imperialist without having an understanding of imperialism.

                    For example, explain China increasing in manufacturing output as a percent of their economy as they enter and push into the middle income bracket?

                    Also, how the hell is the DPRK imperialist? The only place they’ve invaded was a US military dictatorship in the same country that they’re in, while the US dictatorship was slaughtering 10s of thousands of protestors.

                    Oh yes, USSR, the famous standard of democracy /s

                    Yes. If you can’t explain how the soviet councils were layered and how elections were carried out then don’t pretend like you can argue about this in an informed way.

                    China uses a similar system and has a 95 percent approval rate, according to Harvard Surveys.

                    *replace it with the gulag system

                    This is holocaust trivialization. The gulags were not meant to kill people, and the mortality rate in them reflects this.