It’s a “no true scotsman” but those aren’t leftists. Leftists don’t praise and try to emulate autocrats. Those are people pretending to be leftists who are trying to co-opt, radicalize, or confuse leftists.
Leftism by definition is opposed to authoritarians.
Some are pretending to be leftists. But some just have a Manichean view of the world that they can’t shake. Some people change labels when they convert from fundamentalist religion or blind nationalism, but don’t change the framework of their views.
No shit, I have seen people outright denying Houthi atrocities because “They wouldn’t do something like that!”
Because the Houthis are opposed to The Great Satan™, they’re automatically rewritten in these people’s minds to be at least acceptable in every facet of their existence.
Some are pretending to be leftists.
Says the liberal pretending to be a leftist.
The liberal who doesn’t believe in the concept of critical support.
OP blames all the world’s ills on anyone to the left of Manchin.
Explain the absolute takes on the Russian war by Jeremy Corbin and Noam Chomsky. They have encouraged Ukraine to surrender, which is tacit approval of Russia’s invasion by giving Russia everything that they ever asked for
Explain Hassan shilling for Hamas
Hassan
You mean the grifter? He knows what he is doing. And he is doing this on purpose.
They have encouraged Ukraine to surrender,
Show me where Corbyn and Chomsky has said this.
https://twitter.com/achkhikvadze/status/1786879477919649927
He is just saying Ukraine can’t win so it has to accept Russia’s terms (which are basically surrendering its sovereignty)
He is just saying Ukraine can’t win
I guess it’s just a pure coincidence that it’s now perfectly clear that Ukraine can’t win, eh?
Here’s Corbyn doing his job as a Russian asset trying to stop the flow of weapons into Ukraine
Here’s what I typed…
Show me where Corbyn and Chomsky has said this.
Did you misunderstand, perhaps? Here’s what I absolutely did not say…
Show me where Corbyn and Chomsky talked about the practical options Ukraine faces so that you can interpret this as “surrender.”
Is any of this getting through to you?
Neither of those say what you say they said…
Corbin says he encourages “peace” efforts rather than war efforts, which you know duh everybody does.
Chompsky is similar, why or rather now are you twisting either of those in your head to mean something else?
What the actual fuck? War efforts are what’s needed. Because you know, people are dying because of Russian bombs. It’s shooting back that saves lives. Defending their viewpoints is basically tacit approval of wars of aggression.
Notice I didn’t take a stance I simply stated that what you said that article contained is not in fact the truth.
People who advocate for peace with Russia are in fact advocating for Ukrainian surrender. That’s because Russia’s condition IS surrender. If they had more modest goals, that would be one thing
radicalize
Leftists are radicalized by default, genius.
Stalin would disagree
The modern definition of leftism is socialism and co. And socialism is inherently authoritarian.
Socialism is inherently authoritarian? The ideology where power, ownership of production, and wealth is decentralized, removed from the oligarchs and capitalist elite and given back to those who generate it? That’s authoritarian?
I think you, like many who have been subjected to decades of propaganda have equated “socialism” with the failed states that are “communist” in name only, where power and production was centralized to be redistributed to the people, but never followed through with the decentralized part. They’re certainly authoritarian, but they are not socialist.
Also communism is a specific form of socialism. Socialism is not necessarily communism. Like how all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Giving the people the power of the economy is authoritarian. That makes sense.
Where is a socialist country run by people instead of a political elite class?
Giving the people the power of the economy
That’s called capitalism.
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You mean like Hamas? Leftists have this oppression totempole, and anyone being “oppressed” are automatically good.
You don’t have to be “good” to deserve human rights.
Sure. But at the same time, if you attempt to commit genocide, porportional self defense is fair. The question becomes what is porportional.
Proportional self-defense probably ended before November, though, when the Palestinian civilian death toll hopped up to over triple the Israeli civilian death toll from the Hamas attack.
Well, from that single attack on Oct 7th, but thats just one attack out of many. Its unclear just how many have been killed, and by who.
Not really. Even the highest estimates of Israeli casualties for the entire year don’t come close.
Maybe? Hamas clearly gives zero shits about civilians and theres so much propaganda coming out, I wouldnt be surprised to find out Hamas has a higher body count.
Hell, I wouldnt put it past Hamas to delibritly murder Gaza civilians in order to blame the IDF. Hell, didnt they hit a hospital with a rocket?
You yourself just cut a check for Hamas to indiscriminately slaughter 29k israelis as “proportional self defense” for how far in the red that ledger is over Oct 7th.
Considering they shot a rocket at a hospital and blamed the IDF, I wouldnt be surprised if we’re already there. Impossible to know for sure though
People don’t like complex problems. And no, I probably don’t side with you.
New phone huthis?
FYI: Those leftists are right wing trolls under a false flag, exactly like those “Biden takes 100% blame for Israel’s every action” guys. They come from /pol and Telegram.
100% this.
People who think rather than be mindless tribalists can approve of a specific action of a group without approving of their ideology or other actions of theirs.
For example I approve of what the Biden Adminstration has done towards Ukraine whilst not approving of their ideology that puts the Democratic control of people’s life in a nation (i.e. the vote that controls the leaders of the state who make decisions for how the state acts for the good of the many) below Oligarchic control (I.e. Money decides) by defending that the state should not regulate anything that might impact Money or “interfere in the Market”, and do not approve of their unconditional support of the quasi-Nazis know as Zionists even in the middle of them committing a Genocide.
One has to wonder if the endless posts by this user constantly trying to misportray “lefties” as basically all “commies” (including a cartoon the other day where the leftie character wore a red shirt with a hammer and a sickle just in case we were in any doubt what he thought “lefties” were) isn’t very purposeful tribalist propaganda from a very specific American Political Tribe that passes itself for left over there whilst being pro-Oligarch hard-right.
Certainly this endless hammering of the same drum has a very similar stink as the kind of argumentation we get from mindless Trumpists (pre-made generalizations about other people presented as “I know best what they are [even though I’ve never been anywhere close to that political side]”), clearly driven by the same mindless tribalism and structured as broad strokes group slandering Propaganda (it’s hard to stroke more broadly than the entire Left) only this messaging is coming from the pro-Oligarch American Right rather than from the Fascist American Right.
One has to wonder if the endless posts by this user constantly trying to misportray “lefties” as basically all “commies”
Oh, is that what I’m trying to do? Here I thought I was addressing a specific subset of leftists that is common here on Lemmy.
If that’s you intention, you’re not at all being clear in making the distinction.
A lot of your criticism is against doing things which can just as easilly be the natural conclusions of having run of the mill Leftwing or even just Humanist principles (say: “though shall not kill tens of thousands of children due to their etnicity or help doing so” or “politics should aim for the greatest good for the greatest number in preference to making an aggregated Economic number larger”) as they can be the mindless idiological parrotings from actual “commies”.
For example, one needs not be an instinctive pro-Russia tankie playing mind games to somehow support Trump, to state that voting for somebody activelly supporting an etnic genocide being commited by the supporters of a quasi-Nazi ideology would be too much for anybody with Humanist principles: absolutelly normal general Humanist Principles such as “though shall not kill innocents such as children” (which aren’t at exclusive of the Left) explain that posture of not voting for any candidate.
I mean, I’ve seen posts of yours that I totally agree with (because they align with my Principles), but in anything which is to do with Political Factions, in my view you totally abandon principled thinking and just go full on tribalist often passing the impression that you have the very same kind of “everybody has a tribe” expectation as the Far-Right muppets.
Might want to consider that many people don’t have Tribes (were people blindly follow the chief and untinkingly parrot the tribal slogans), and instead they have Principles, so support or not things based on how much those things align with their Principles not with any Party Line.
My impression here in Lemmy is that there are a lot more Lefties By Principle than Members Of Self-Proclaimed Leftwing Tribes, though there are certainly a lot more of the latter than in the average English-speaking social media.
For example, one needs not be an instinctive pro-Russia tankie playing mind games to somehow support Trump,
I hope you mean ‘or somehow support Trump’.
to state that voting for somebody activelly supporting an etnic genocide being commited by the supporters of a quasi-Nazi ideology would be too much for anybody with Humanist principles: absolutelly normal general Humanist Principles such as “though shall not kill innocents such as children” (which aren’t at exclusive of the Left) explain that posture of not voting for any candidate.
And I call that position out for what it is. Tacit support for fascism.
I’m opposed to the Palestinian genocide. It’s not like I don’t get that. If it were up to me, Israel wouldn’t get one red cent from any democratic nation.
But opting for the greater evil doesn’t save anyone. Contributing to a Trump victory - and yes, choosing inaction is an action - will endanger many millions more without even the hope of changing what is supposedly being protested against - indeed, actually making it worse.
And, you know, me and mine? We’re not at the top of the target list, but we’re definitely not at the bottom either. So I’d like to not end up marching into an extermination camp because someone wanted to feel ‘principled’ when they refused to vote for the lesser evil who will continue democracy and not initiate any new genocides. It’s deeply frustrating to me when people who claim to care about minorities won’t do the least damn thing, a check in a box, to use their very real power as citizens to help avert a very serious situation. What else is that to be seen as, other than passive support for sending me and my family into the death camps?
I mean, I’m honestly not that attached to my own life. But my family I love. Some of them, at least. And I would very much like it if other minorities in the US weren’t genocided either. If that’s not a reason to get fucking furious at people doing nothing when they could be doing something at minimal fucking cost to them, I don’t know what is.
Fuck, you want to overthrow the system? I’m not stopping you. But if you aren’t doing it in the next six months, check the fucking box for those of us who have to live through this shite.
I mean, I’ve seen posts of yours that I totally agree with (because they align with my Principles), but in anything which is to do with Political Factions, in my view you totally abandon principled thinking and just go full on tribalist often passing the impression that you have the very same kind of “everybody has a tribe” expectation as the Far-Right muppets.
I mean, everyone does have a tribe, but that tribe isn’t always relevant to political discussion. Most of the time when I’m bitching, it’s about people whose principles should nominally align against a certain action or particularly vile faction, but align with it instead for some godforsaken reason (usually, a mixture of ‘They oppose Tribe I Hate so they must be good’ and ‘The other members of My Tribe say this and I want to reinforce their positions’).
My impression here in Lemmy is that there are a lot more Lefties By Principle than Members Of Self-Proclaimed Leftwing Tribes, though there are certainly a lot more of the latter than in the average English-speaking social media.
I think you put too much emphasis on the label and not the tribe. People in Lemmy are as tribal as any other - the difference is that their ‘tribe’ has more to do with their social circles than their self-applied political labels.
I haven’t heard anything about this so I’m not sure about this claim unless anyone is able to link credible evidence
And remember that politics is a spectrum and has its own faction
Remember that we are all human amd we should be working together for a common cause to remove bigotry, intolerance and those who preach intolerance from the world and we should be working towards transitioning away from the exploitative system of capitalism
I haven’t heard anything about this so I’m not sure about this claim unless anyone is able to link credible evidence
Sure. How many examples do you want? Just from Lemmy, or are articles from Left-wing magazines alright too? Twitter and Reddit are low-hanging fruit, so we can exclude them.
Twitter and Reddit are low handing fruit, but Lemmy isn’t? Lol…
Anyways, yes, I’d be interested in some left-wing magazines that aren’t just a tankie/“America bad, Russia good” outlet. Maybe 3 different sources if you have that many?
Anyways, yes, I’d be interested in some left-wing magazines that aren’t just a tankie/“America bad, Russia good” outlet. Maybe 3 different sources if you have that many?
Other way around - the left-wing magazines (actual magazines, not Kbin communities) I’m talking about praising the Houthis very much are “America Bad Russia Good” types.
Can you just provide some sources so we have context as to what you are talking about?
Some puff pieces:
https://socialistworker.co.uk/palestine-2023/strikes-on-yemen/
https://www.liberationnews.org/why-are-the-u-s-and-uk-bombing-yemen/
https://www.liberationnews.org/who-are-the-houthis/
https://theintercept.com/2024/01/19/houthis-yemen-biden-airstrikes/
Bonus non-puff pieces, providing an outside (if hostile) look at the ongoing process of the Houthi ‘rehabilitation’ in some circles:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/world/middleeast/yemen-houthis-propaganda.html
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/how-war-gaza-revived-axis-resistance
What’s more likely;
Their online identities are real and their support for authoritarian nazi-types is fake.
OR
Their online identities are just a mask and their support for authoritarian nazi-types is 100% genuine.
Given how much Lemmy “leftists” trip all over each other in order to praise the Chinese characteristics that cause “socialism” to produce billionaires while overlooking human rights abuses, yeah, I think it is the authoritarianism they like and not the economics.
Hate to tell you but authoritarianism isn’t endemic to either the left or the right.
🙋Is saying “fucking up Israeli ships is based” considered praising Houthis?
Praising, no. Dumb, usually; since Israeli ships aren’t even the majority of targets hit by the Houthis.
Also the majority of ships attacked by the Houthis are civilian. You can’t complain that Israel isn’t doing enough to protect civilians in Gaza and then cheer for attacks on civilians.
I can ‘get’ a limited argument for that in a ‘total war’ sense of economic warfare, though I’d still regard it as abhorrent.
Fact is it’s not even that much, though. It’s just random attacks on shipping because their paymasters benefit from the chaos and the Houthis benefit from the raised profile.
MFers can’t even do one thing fully based smh
CMV level 1: Houthis didn’t exist for anyone in eurosphere until they bombed ships.
CMV level 2: The regime they fought was shitty, but so is their current administration.
CMV level 3: They had zero reason to bomb ships because they don’t have any interest in this, but they were told to do so by investors and suppliers like Iran in exchange for something for their corrupt elites.
CMV level 1: Houthis didn’t exist for anyone in eurosphere until they bombed ships.
As someone who follows foreign policy, I object! Some of us were here observing a conflict that had no traction in broader culture and we had no influence over!
That’s surprising. Looking at that conflict or any other, like in Myanmar (pre their r/combat_footage popularity), makes me feel like I’m the only english-speaking person who even know it’s going on.
I can be moderately entertaining, so I make sure my friends are informed as well. But yeah, it’s a pretty small percentage of us who give a damn about foreign affairs. The number of people I’ve met who don’t even know the difference between Iran and Iraq is… astounding.
It’s a given. And the fact of it itself is somehow sobering. In a way you stop giving a fuck that much about what ill-informed actors tell. Many of them didn’t even read wikipedia, but spread their influencer’s pov to others.
To be fair, when the media refuses to cover something how does a normal person even know what to search for?
Iran and Iraq are constantly in the news, though. At least the Houthis were somewhat obscure until recently.
The Yemen shit has been in the news somewhat before this. It just hasn’t been a very pertinent conflict most of the time for European viewers.
Leftist around here just means a friend of americas enemies, economics and social issues never seem to enter into it, excepto as meaningless verbal cudgels.
Where exactly have you been browsing bud?
Lemmy.ml is usually pretty bad for that shite.
That’s just not true though.
Oh? If I provide proof, will you admit that you’re bullshitting, or will you say “No, i-it’s just 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 posters, it doesn’t count!”
EDIT: My favorite part of telling when some assmad individual downvotes all of my posts is when I see completely irrelevant and anodyne comments I’ve made elsewhere downvoted at the same time.
I’ve seen 2 memes complaining about this and no examples of it. I’m perfectly willing to believe that it has happened - if there’s a crazy thought, someone will spout it online.
But it doesn’t seem either widespread or representative of the actual beliefs of real humans in the world.
I’m in the same boat and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it happen (with other topics). Multiple memes about the thing, 0 of the thing…
I see it on Lemmy often enough to be annoyed by it. On Reddit, before I left for good, it was an article of faith in tankie-controlled subreddits.
So if it’s just a tankie thing why are you accusing broader leftists of it?
It’s not just a tankie thing, unless the usage of tankie has expanded since I last checked. Tankie-controlled subreddits were frequented by far more than just tankies. Furthermore, it’s not all leftists, or even most leftists I’m accusing of this. My point is that it’s bizarre when self-proclaimed leftists do praise the Houthis, precisely because the Houthis are a far-right theocracy.
I didn’t realize Houthis being far-right theocrats was such a contentious point to you.
I would like to see your proof.
Not because I don’t think you have any, mind you. I’m sure you do. (Or you’ve got like, giant fucking stones.)
I somehow don’t manage to see comments like that and want to know what I’m missing out on.I am just curious. I look at car accidents even though I know I’m not supposed to.
And like, it’s not just a politeness, or a ‘don’t accidentally run over a first responder’ (unless they’re a cop) thing – a friend told me they once looked at a car accident (involving a motorcycle) and saw a disembodied head and that they will never be the same again.“The Houthis don’t want to kill anyone and they only hate LGBT folk because of The Evil West”
“Houthis are just Legitimate Opposition”
Bravely standing together with the Houthis
A large number of comments (all from the same thread, maybe?) I faved seem to have been deleted since the height of discourse on the Houthis a few months ago, and I can’t access them anymore. I should’ve screenshotted them instead of favoriting. If you type ‘Houthi’ into Hexbear, you’ll find plenty of weirdness, though, if your interest is just in seeing the car wreck. Lemmygrad probably you’ll get similar but less entertainingly vile results.
Idk I just had the gif laying around.
Generally, unless you are on lemmygrad or hexbear, this just isn’t something that happens.
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When you see “leftists” praising Biden.
DAE PALESTINE? DAE GENICODE?!
Because they’re trying to stop a genocide. Typical liberal tactic, since they’ve given up on vilifying the Palestinians they’re murdering Zionists are moving on to demanding their allies be saints.
There’s a difference between expecting allies be saints and expecting them to not be so brutally authoritarian it made the Arab Spring equivalent of the “I can’t Breathe” chant become a thing
Not being theocratic slime is not subverting anticolonialism to civility politics, if anything it’s the complete opposite considering how the religions your theocratic “allies” stump for is literally defined historically by the fact that it is imported by colonial merchants to establish a port elite to the exclusion of local tradition.
There’s also a difference between being against authoritarianism and being against it only when it’s to obfuscate your own more heinous crimes.
I guarantee you will not find any of these anti Houthi posters concerning themselves with this before the world turned against Israeli’s genocide.
I guarantee you will not find any of these anti Houthi posters concerning themselves with this before the world turned against Israeli’s genocide.
It’s amusing, because not only was I against Israel’s genocide before October 7, I was also one of the few Americans who knew who the fuck the Houthis were and opposed them long before that as well.
Yeah sure buddy, let’s see some proof. And Israel’s crimes have garnered the attention and persecution of the ICC, the scale of their crimes pales in comparison to the Houthis or anyone else’s right now.
Yes, the left thinks the Houthis are the good guys because they proved before the world that the US was not invincible and that the world really could prevent it from “happening again”.
Thank you for being a demonstration.
A demonstration of what? You’re completely leaving out the brutal context of a genocide as to why the left is praising Hothis. Hothis should be criticized for the wrong that they’ve done but it’s obvious you’re concern trolling Zionist that couldn’t care less about the myriad of crimes the West and their proxies have committed.
October 7 has been a full mask off event. Never in my life did I think I would see university students chanting in the streets for Hamas. A genocidal theocratic terrorist organisation which would sooner murder everyone protesting for them than give women and minorities rights. Horseshoe Theory isn’t a theory anymore. It’s real and it’s here.
Pretty sure most students are protesting against IDF actions resulting in civilian casualties rather that for HAMAS
university students chanting in the streets for Hamas.
Gonna need a video on that one.
Easy when you consider anyone not supporting Israeli genocide wholeheartedly is Hamas. Just like criticising Israeli government is anti-semitism.
