• doofer_name@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    I hate point 2 and 3.

    I have an avarage travel of 45-55 minutes from my home city to the city I work in. By car and by train, while the train is usually on the slower end. It takes about 20-30 minutes to get from my home to the train station by taking the bus or riding the bike. When taking the bus I also have to factor in about 15 minutes between arrival at the station and departure of the train. Then there is another 20 minutes from the train station at destination to my place of work. So it takes me 40-65 minutes longer taking the train… twice a day, making it 1:20-2:10h a day (when Im lucky bc trains over here have frequent delays). One hour ish doesn’t sound like much? Well you’ll feel it if you working 11-12h a shift or a 9-10 hour a day in a normal 9 to 5 job (starting work at around 7 a.m.).

    Then there is a neat little think called night or late shifts. There is no way I’m gonna take the train here. They either take an hour longer or the bus at my home city does not drive anymore on the way back.

    Demand better public transportation. Demand functioning trains and frequent bus and tram connections. But do not tell people that need to take the car for whatever reason, that they should just take the worse option and make them feel like the problem.

    I hate cars. I hate driving. And I love taking the train or taking the bike within my city. But sometimes I just have to take the car. That is not my fault tho, since public transportation is not the main focus of politics over here. And thats what needs to change globally.

    • zerofk@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      When I switched from using the bus to going by bike, i cut my commute time by more than half. If I were to take the car, it would halve again. Public transport is great, and necessary. But it will never be faster than a personal car for anything but large distances.

      • Flumsy@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        … where you live. Where I live (in central Europe) we have a subway every 2-3 minutes and you’re at worst 2 blocks away from a stop. It all depends on the infrastructure. A subway cant be stuck in traffic…

        • pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io
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          1 year ago

          Yep. Here in Berlin traveling to my old office (when I didn’t work from home all the time) with the S or U-bahn took 30-35 minutes and by car/taxi about 40-45 minutes due to the traffic.

          • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Berlin is one of the few german cities where public transport is done right. In cologne, where I lived, there are a lot of stops, but the inferstructure is just realy bad. They managed that trains get stuck in traffic too sometimes. And for some reason they trains only arrive in a 10-30min time window. So if you want to follow one line it’s relatively fine, but if you have to change trains you have to be lucky. In the city center still faster than driving though.

        • ikarushagen2@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Just say central european city.

          I too live in central europe and the bus line i could take from my town to the town i work in takes 1 hr to get there and back, at the end of my day the bus only departes one hour after i’m finished with work so i have to wait for the bus the same amount of time i need for both ways with my car.

          • dafo@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            They should really say a European city with a subway. Not all cities in Europe have a subway.

            • Flumsy@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              It was pretty obvious from my comment that I live in a European city with a subway…

              I didnt say my comment applied to all European cities either.

        • Cows Look Like Maps@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Also, trams/streetcars in Zurich have right of way and the red lights change for them. Which is completely logical considering how many more people you can fit in them than a few cards at a red light. The problems with public transit in North America are a function of our car infrastructure.

        • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It sure is nice that everyone gets to live in New York, London, and Washington.

          A better solution is to reduce how much people need to travel. Instead of building trillion-dollartransit systems so people can to to the office we should be taxing the everloving shit out of office spaces for jobs that can be worked remotely.

          • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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            1 year ago

            Why not both? I live in Stockholm and work from home. I have amazing trains that I could take to work, and I’ve never had a commute longer than 40 minutes. But a 0 minute commute is still shorter than 5minute commute.

            • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Because not everyone can live in fucking Stockholm.

              An apartment within 40 miles of my office in the city costs 5x as much per month as where I live. I can’t get a fucking pizza delivered to my house, much less a bus. And unless I want to smell like a gym at work the 5+ months a year it’s over 100° outside, I need to drive to the nearest bus station if I want to take transit. So I’m already having to drive and park somewhere. Then I have to pay to park at the bus station and pay again to ride the bus that drops me off 9 blocks from my office, where I’d have to walk the rest of the way.

              All told it’d add 2-3 hours to my commute and be more expensive than driving.

              But if 100% of the work I do is on the computer at the office. The real solution is to not have the fucking office at all.

              • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                There are obviously other systemic problems. Cities being designed around cars isn’t the only one.

                But your rage shouldn’t be directed at the people who want to make public transit options suck less.

                • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  His solution isn’t to make it suck less. His just says how great it is to live somewhere that was designed around walking because when the city was established that was pretty much the only option.

                  The Southern US is designed around cars because until fairly recently it was very sparsely populated, so everything had to be designed around cars and air conditioning in order to develop. It was the correct decision at the time, and changing it now is much more difficult than simply saying “be like this city that was established before the steam engine.”

              • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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                1 year ago

                Yeah that’s definitely a challenge, and I believe it is a failure of city planning.

                My condo is worth $300k and is within 15min of central Stockholm. The housing crisis is definitely a problem around the world, but European cities that don’t have the missing middle problem are in a much better place.

                Back on topic, even if you could work from home, it would still take you over an hour to go grocery shopping or buy a pizza, which is a huge problem. Both of those things are within a 15 min walk for me.

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        I’m in Vancouver, while the system needs some improvement, the skytrain gets me right to the airport, with trains every few minutes. No parking nonsense. Driving, with traffic, is much longer. Bussing has some express routes so the trips aren’t so many stops also. until the system wxpands develooment the consideration is looking for a place nearer a stop or station.

      • DrRatso@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        A bike is faster in my city if you are decently fast, but a bus or trolley is faster than cars during rush hours, because we have public transit lanes, so while everyone in their tin cans is stressed yelling at the dumbass who just cut them off im breezing past, listening to a podcast, meditating or catching a quick ten minute nap before work.

    • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I tried taking my family out on a weekend on transit. 40 minutes wait for a bus that had any room, an hour to travel 10km, and it cost us $10 each way for the family. I live in a major city but our transit is trash. It’s not fit for a city of this size.

      • doofer_name@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        That sounds horrible. Public transportation is such a vital thing for citys to function properly as a place to live and not just work in. And dont get me started on small towns or the countryside where not owning a car basically means you’re fucked. I cannot wrap my head around how politicians just fail to see this. Climate change might be the most urgent, but by far not the only argument for better public transportation.

      • ahto@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        It’s not fit for a city of this size.

        Tokyo would like to have a word with you. It’s not public transit in and of itself that is the issue, it’s the implementation.

        • candybrie@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I think you read that wrong. They aren’t saying public transit doesn’t work in a city that size, but the public transit in their city isn’t up to the standard it should be for a city that size.

    • cadekat@pawb.social
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      1 year ago

      How likely is it that your home and work are 20 minutes away from train stations because your region prioritizes cars?

      • doofer_name@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Its not just likely, thats the case. But living in the inner city is expensive here. And thats the case in most of the country.

  • Stuka@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    This memes community should be named 'Wannabe Activitists"

    • sheogorath@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You don’t. If you live where cars are not needed, e.g. Tokyo, you’ll just walk to your nearest small grocer and get the ingredients you need. That’s what I did when I stayed in Japan for work.

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        1 year ago

        Thankfully, my little corner store will remain open during floods and other natural disasters as well as pandemics and such. So it will never be necessary for me to have more than 24 hours worth of food in my house.

      • Lightor@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        So you have to essentially grocery shop before every meal? That doesn’t sound super efficient. Especially when cooking for a family.

        This also still doesn’t help with throwing like a big party where you need a large amount of food.

        Edit: So yes, all the responses are basically shop every day. I wish I had that kinda time.

        • LucyLastic@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Just walk in to the local shop on your way to/from wherever else you’re going (or just to get out of the house for two minutes if you’ve been working from home) … that way you can have fresh ingredients every day, and you’re walking a bit regularly so you don’t get overweight easily

        • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          I used to buy ingredients for my meals every second day while living in Europe. Always what I wanted or was on sale. No meal planning for the week and making a huge order / weekend mall spree.

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          It’s super simple. You stop there on your way home. When I was in Berlin, I would generally hit up the grocery store a few times a week. I did not have to worry about produce going bad because it would be used with one of my meals on the next couple of days.

    • Katana314@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The reason you haul entire shopping carts at once is because the trip to the grocery store is a big planned deal. That’s also the reason people buy bulk items and then let half of them expire.

      The “ideal” for bikers and train riders would be easier, quicker trips to small stores to get ingredients for the next few days. I find I’m able to fit most of my needs into one pannier.

      • BareMetalSkirt@lemmy.kya.moe
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        1 year ago

        This changes sharply if you’re buying for more people than just yourself.

        The reason I haul entire shopping carts at once is because I don’t want to waste time shopping every day. A big 2-hour haul per month vs. 1-2 20-minute trips to the local corner konbini every day. Plus some of the bigger bulk stores deliver (this is Hinode, Tokyo; rural ones probably don’t).

        Buying in bulk is far less expensive: you pay less (duh), but you spend a lot less time on it too. If I’m buying groceries just-in-time and the nearest shop doesn’t have the ingredient I need that day, I have to go to a different shop for that one item. Lots of time wasted, and a lot of stress on top. You can’t change your mind later either, because you’ve already bought ingredients for that one meal. So I prefer to have things buffered in stock, and resupply in advance. You also use far less plastic packaging that way, e.g. buying a 25-liter premix syrup canister instead of hundreds of coke bottles.

        • JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Not to mention that the grocery stores that are well located are usually more expensive. The cheaper options exist in less number and so it makes it less convenient or sometimes not possible at all to get to on a normal work day.

          You can save a lot of money that way.

          And I’m in Europe FYI.

          • Kaktus@lemmy.loomy.li
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            1 year ago

            You save the money and spend it on a car?

            My experience is different. If I go for grocery once a week I buy a lot of stuff which rots or expires. If I buy it daily I just buy what I need, and what I want that day.

            • JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yes that’s how it works. You save some money and spend it in other shit.

              Also I don’t have a car just so I can go get groceries. I have a car for a multitude of other reasons and I can get groceries. Driving 5 mins to a supermarket has an insignificant cost, and if that supermarket is cheaper then you can save multiples of that.

              Regarding the stuff expiring, that’s just your experience. I have the opposite. There’s plenty of non perishable shit that I can get when it’s on sale because I can carry a ton of it if I came by car. Meanwhile if I go shopping by foot and I need laundry detergent I’ll just have to get whatever they have at that time. You can save a ton of money like that.

              For easily perishable food yes buying regularly is better but that also means a ton of wasted time going to the supermarket very frequently even if to get only a few items.

        • Navy@slrpnk.net
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          There are ways to do this in a walkable city.

          If a grocery store is within walking distance why not make a trip of it with the whole family? Many hands make light work. Or, just because a city is human focused instead of car focused doesn’t mean no cars at all (at least in the way I would implement it) you could rent a car for a few hours every couple of weeks.

          Obviously these ideas won’t work for everyone but they’re just off the top of my head, and unfortunately there is no system that will work for everyone. We just have to try for works better.

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I’ve done that. You just bring something appropriate to carry it in.

      Although now that I live closer to a smaller grocer, I just walk twice.

    • rallatsc@slrpnk.net
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      1 year ago

      I will say that I’ve been able to bring 3-4 grocery bags onto a bus, which is enough to last me around 2 weeks. I’ve done this fairly consistently (basically whenever it’s too cold/snowy to bike) for the last couple years. It might not be possible for a family without more than one person making the trip, but for an individual it can definitely work.

      • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I don’t mean this the way it’s going to sound, but…

        I’m happy it works for you, and you’re happy with it. It doesn’t work for everyone.

        • rallatsc@slrpnk.net
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          I completely understand that, and I know that’s why a lot of people need cars. I was primarily responding to the parent comment claiming that it wouldn’t work for anyone because it’d be impossible to bring enough groceries with you on the bus/train.

          • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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            Oh, I see now. Sorry about that. Yes it’s possible to use public transport in cases where you don’t need much and the time necessary isn’t outlandish. I think I was conflating several messages in my head when I responded to yours. Glad to see some people are able to be civil here.

    • I mean the idea is that good urban planning would enable shorter and more frequent grocery store trips. Rather than a supercenter supplying everyone within 30 miles, requiring long drives, you’d have things distributed by need, i.e. general food stores every couple miles, more specialist places potentially farther away. Our current layout and shopping habits are contingent on car infrastructure and massive federal subsidies.

      Would also decrease waste and increase general health, since fresher, less processed food could be purchased.

    • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Three or four bags of groceries is totally doable on a bus or train.

      • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        Two weeks worth of shopping for a family would be a lot more than three or four bags.

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          A week’s worth for my family of four is generally two bags. Shopping for more than that just leaves a bunch of rotten produce.

    • gareins@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      This is ok though, going once per 14days for that 90% of stuff and having your car for that is ok. Otherwise if you run out of something, hop to your nearest store. Also here some of my friends and family are not reachable via public transport so I use car for that. But dont use it for commute every day, going to the beach/mountains every weekend, going to the store every other day, taking kids to school and back etc. For many this is completely doable but people are lazy

    • Gabu@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      In civilized countries, it’s common. Even on bicycles, by the way.

    • psud@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Buses where I live have a cargo rack at the front. If you had four bags of shopping (though that’s really quite a lot - the bags are big) you would tie the tops closed and leave them in one of the racks until you reached your destination

      • SnausagesinaBlanket@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        If you had four bags of shopping (though that’s really quite a lot - the bags are big) you would tie the tops closed and leave them in one of the racks until you reached your destination

        Along with the 75 other passengers doing the same thing?

        And what if it’s paper goods and raining like fuck?

        • psud@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago
          1. It’s rare that more than three people on a bus are doing shopping

          2. Carry an umbrella, and isn’t everything wrapped in plastic now?

          • Nobsi@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            It’s rare because everyone else is shopping by car
            If we got rid of cars then it woudln’t be rare anymore. Think!

            • psud@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Nope. Lots of people can walk to the shops. We have suburban centres typically 15 minutes walk away

              • Nobsi@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Can doesnt mean do. Most people drive distances that are longer than 8 minutes.
                If the argument to give up the car for shopping and to replace it with a bus is countered with the amount of bags on the bus, then your counter to that cannot be to just walk.

                • Did you forget what you were arguing?
    • soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz
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      Grocery delivery is quick and cheap to 99% of UK. Also I’ve been on a bus plenty of times with enough shopping to last two humans a week.

      Problem is the people who have 5 mouths to feed and want enough food for 3 weeks. In that case, get a delivery

        • soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Take a few seconds to think before replying.

          What’s better, 30 deliveries in 1 van or 30 deliveries in 30 cars?

          • KarmaTrainCaboose@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Okay but this isn’t what happens. When using services like instacart they will batch only maybe two or three orders in a car. Unless there are other services that I’m not aware of that will batch more?

            I don’t think grocery translates well to mass delivery because it increases rates of spoilage and damaged produce.

            • soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz
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              I live in UK and all the major supermarkets do 20-50 deliveries in one fully refrigerated van. You do have to book it a couple of days in advance but that’s the cost of the service, obviously you can get Uber and deliveroo instant deliveries but that’s dumb as fuck.

              This is clearly a culture difference between where I live and wherever you live (please share that info)

              But yes it’s EXACTLY how it works in most of Europe.

    • Illegal_Prime@dmv.social
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      I have my own cart that I walk to the store with, I never have much trouble with it, and it’s super useful when I need to get heavy things like milk. I’ve never brought it on the metro as I’ve never had any reason to, but it would not be too difficult to do so. It’s no more difficult than carrying a suitcase or two to the airport.

  • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    Am from Germany and went to Nuremburg to visit a convention.
    The public transit is night and day between those two places.
    Only had to wait about <10min for the next bus.
    I believe the accomodation is not very outside or inside of the transit serving area but it is surprising what a subway and a good schedule can do for one.

  • workerONE@lemmy.ml
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    “Stop driving cars because places were not supposed to be driven to.” Wow that’s a good point /s

    • Cows Look Like Maps@sh.itjust.works
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      Traffic engineering isn’t a university program and we’re still using studies from the 50’s to dictate our traffic engineering. It’s civil engineers in NA who are forced to follow outdated policy which maximizes for car traffic flow, regardless of body count or overall flow of poeple across all transit options. Generally, city planners are all for public transit and walkable and bike able cities but have to battle with politicians appealing to suburbanites with cars.

      • InputZero@lemmy.ml
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        I don’t understand why this is such a hard thing for people and government to understand. Your car isn’t going to a place, you and the stuff you need to carry are. The car is just the means and there are many other means to do so, they just get a lot less attention and funding. Cars and traffic infrastructure have been subsidised for over a century now. Of course cars more developed, and of course we build our cities for cars, we’re socializing cars.

        Yes, there are many areas that have been developed so car focused that it’s a necessity to own a car. People living in rural areas will always need personal cars. People in urban and suburban areas probably don’t and should give up their personal vehicles so Farmer can keep theirs.

    • psud@lemmy.world
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      My city was designed to be driven to. It was built after cars were common

      But it’s still quicker to get from suburbia to city by bike than bus, but car is quicker still

  • Rayspekt@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Great meme and even better because its true.

    Imagine getting driven everywhere and still choosing doing it on your own. These people need Steam Decks, I tell you.

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      1 year ago

      You are allowed hate something you own and depend on. What I find fuck cars people are about is how much cars are catered for and it’s still horrible to use in a lot of places.

      • shneancy@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        absolutely.

        Normally I live in a, relatively speaking, new city - and everything is so bloody far away, sure some things are more centralised but plenty of things are getting built in places with no public transport connections or an easy way to walk to.

        For 3 years at uni I lived in a very old town, and everything, just everything, was in the town centre, you could walk everywhere with no issues.

        The difference is one place was built for people, and the other was built for cars.

        • cottonmon@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I live in a third world country and have to usually have to take taxis to get anywhere without being a sweaty mess and I’d love to the point where public transportation can get you anywhere in the metro, similar to how Hong Kong (where income taxes are pretty low as far as I know) does it.

    • huge_clock@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      A lot. Because our infrastructure and zoning basically demand you buy a car. That’s not the point. The point is to advocate change through local government.

        • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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          1 year ago

          Cars are a form of personal transportation. Personal transportation is great, things like bikes and escooters can get people around very quickly. The problem with cars is that they go too fast, and they take up too much space.

          It’s a tragedy of the commons. Cars would be great if they were only used by professional drivers, didn’t require parking, and were limited to how many could fit on the roads without causing traffic. (These are called busses and taxis)

          All cities in the 60s and 70s were excited about cars. Even cities that would be considered “anti-car” nowadays, like NYC, Paris, and Amsterdam, were excited about cars and building massive highways. However, what most people realized, is that building enough parking, and building wide enough roads to handle all the cars is really hard (and in some cases, literally impossible). Residents realized that they didn’t want any more of their city to be bulldozed for yet another highway or parking lot, and went fuckcars.

          On top of that, this all happened before we understood the impacts of cars on climate change and mental health.

          So yes, we built car-dependent places because it was convenient, and now we’re de-carifying those places because it was a terrible decision.

                • Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  It is just as irrational for me to make the claim I made as you to make yours without evidence. Fortunately the arguments against car-dependent infrastructure planning go far beyond “we don’t like 'em”. The human and environmental benefits of walkable cities with robust public transit and the unsustainability of car-dependency speak for themselves. What other issue of political advocacy would “some people disagree” fly as a reasonable argument? The whole point of advocacy is to shift the tide of popular opinion enough to make material change

            • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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              I have plenty of friends and family in the us and Sweden who own cars. I dont know a single person who enjoys driving to work.

              My point still stands, cars are nice for the first 10k people to drive, but they fucking suck for the other 40k+ people in your city.

                • Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  and to laugh at all the people catching COVID on the bus with all the single mothers, old people and unemployed

                  well aren’t you a peach

                • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m not downvoting you btw, but it sounds like the problem here isn’t that you like cars, but rather that you’re a rural conservative who doesn’t like interacting with lower classes.

            • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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              Yep most car owners whose cars are not unreliable pieces of shit do enjoy their cars. I’ve been careful over the years to only buy cars that I would enjoy driving and owning. Zero regrets about any of my 5 car purchases. I only sometimes regret selling a couple of them.

        • huge_clock@lemmy.world
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          You can’t take the train before the tracks are laid down.

          Go to Europe my friend. You can go from Madrid to Barcelona for $30 on a train that goes over 300 km/h.

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          The car industry lobbies to tear up public infrastructure, dingus.

    • TheSaneWriter@lemmy.thesanewriter.com
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      Of course I own a car, you need to own one to get anywhere where I live. That doesn’t mean I have to support car infrastructure or be against public transit. I advocate for making public transit services more common and easier to use, and I would use public transit if my supported policies were implemented.

      • cottonmon@lemmy.world
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        I honestly don’t get their argument. Yes, the current situation is bad and will necessitate using cars, but isn’t that the point of the post? That things could be better? That getting to the reality where cars are not as needed would be great? It’s such a strange attack against people who want better public transportation infrastructure.

        • ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world
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          Most of us aren’t arguing that a decrease in dependence on vehicles isn’t beneficial or worth the time. We’re tired of being implicitly blamed for just trying to exist in an established system. The very first words in this post are “STOP DRIVING CARS” like we have a choice or that would fix anything or that it’s our responsibility to upend how we live our life for “the cause”.

          THAT is what pisses us off.

        • psud@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I used to visit fuck cars, back when I was on Reddit. I own two cars, and I look forward to a time when I only need them to tow a trailer and/or go on holiday

    • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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      I wonder how many fuck cars people will buy a car when they finally graduate and get a job and realise they want 1 hr 30 commuting every day instead of 3 hours?

      My wife and I own two cars and live outside the most urban parts of our city. I actually love cars, especially when I get to drive a standard transmission. But we both are firmly in the FuckCars camp.

      We walk, bike, and use public transit when we can, and we vote to improve the pedestrian infrastructure in our area whenever we can. We love vacationing in places with good public transit, and would live in such places if circumstances allowed.

      Part of the frustration in the FuckCars community is the very thing you said in your post. Cities are built around cars, which means every other form of commuting is secondary and therefore worse than it could be. This is what we want to change. Build cities around people. Get rid of massive parking lots, dangerous stroads, etc. If people need cars to get from city to city, or outside of cities, totally fine. But they shouldn’t be necessary for day-to-day in populated areas.

      Cities could be so much better, and we know this because there ARE cities that are better. It just takes effort and time.

      • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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        Cities could be so much better, and we know this because there ARE cities that are better. It just takes effort and time.

        And eminent domain, to take the land to build that infrastructure. And money. Lots and lots of money. And way more time than you think. Effectively having to level homes for miles, grade the surface and then, finally getting to build this utopian vision of public transportation, which will then need to be fed, sorry, maintained, by taxes that will shoot through the roof. Then, the displaced will need a place to stay, so enter yet more eminent domain to take more property to build vertical, because there is a finite amount of land. And this would be jn just one small to mid sized US city.

        Look, I’m happy for anyone who’s happy in how they do their daily. You chose it, and it works for you. Some people don’t chose that life, and it doesn’t work for them. I respect your way of life, it should only be fair that you respect mine. I’m not driving a 3500 turbo diesel that gets 12 gallons to the mile, stomping on the gas “just because I like the sound” and throwing cheeseburger wrappers out the window.

        Difference is, I’m not trying to force my way of life on others…

        • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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          Infinite money if we want to do it immediately. Don’t be so defeatist. Changing hearts, minds, and infrastructure is not immediate.

            • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              There are plenty of good solutions. Just because you’re only hearing the very valid complaints doesn’t mean solutions don’t exist. They just aren’t going to be easy or immediate. Life doesn’t work that way.

              Cars are indeed here to stay. But we can make cities much better over time.

                • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I believe I did mention cars as valuable for use outside of cities. I live in the US, cars are an absolute necessity outside of major population centers.

                  Even so, cities are better when cars are unnecessary within them. CAPABLE, but unnecessary.

        • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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          You don’t have to give up personal transportation to build public transportation. Are you high? And no, it does not take infinite money. How the fuck do you think that they’re are cities who have already implemented decent public transportation got them? They certainly did not have infinite money.

          Are you always this defeatist?

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      let me translate what you just asked

      I wonder how many people will be forced to buy a car to be able to function in society even though they hate the idea owning a car and in any other developed nation they could go car free in an equivalent city because they have better public transport and/or bike infrastructure

    • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
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      Ah, yes. Minimizing other people’s arguments by implying they don’t have jobs.

      This is a bad comment that you should probably delete.

        • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
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          Cool. I’ve been working for 8 years, commuting in the range of 10-15 km to my various places of work throughout that period, with the exception of the pandemic period during which I worked remotely.

          Not once have I driven a car to any of my jobs. A mix of public transportation and cycling has covered all of my needs, and I wouldn’t have saved any time by opting to drive.

          This invalidates this terrible comment, so let’s not keep repeating.

    • newIdentity@sh.itjust.works
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      I’m in Germany. That’s how long it takes with the trains to get to my Workplace. And I still rather work from Home because I don’t have to travel 3 to 4 hours a day.

      Holy shit you guys have bad infrastructure. Even worse than ours.

      I also generally rather use the train despite its problems. Especially when I’m not sure if I will be drinking or taking other drugs.

      • Knightfox@lemmy.one
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        Not really, the images and travel descriptions you’re reading here are the exception, not the rule. The US has great infrastructure, just not for public transportation as there isn’t enough centralized usage and the locations are far apart. It would take me 4 hours to go to work by bus, but it takes me 25 min by car.

        • newIdentity@sh.itjust.works
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          That sounds like it’s a vicious cycle. There isn’t any public transport so there are no people using the public transport which causes public transports to be bad, so there isn’t anybody using it

          • Knightfox@lemmy.one
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            It is to a point, but when you reach that point it’s just not feasible to have public transportation. The city I work in has a light rail train, it has a robust busing system, but people also travel from 20+ different small towns around this one and at a certain point that system breaks down. If I were to take the bus I would still need a car to get to the next small town where the bus stop into the large town is.

            The fact is that the most of the US isn’t designed like old world cities which were built with public transportation and foot traffic in mind.

        • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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          That’s simply poor route planning, which could be solved by better bus funding, leading to more buses with more stops and more frequent trips.

        • rockerface 🇺🇦@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          “great infrastructure, just not for public transportation” sounds to me like another way to say “shit infrastructure”

          • Knightfox@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            Infrastructure can apply to different things, you can have great infrastructure for cars, but not trains. You can have well maintained power lines, but poor internet connectivity. You can have a robust water utility, but a mixed storm and sewer system.

            If you’re gonna point out one bad part of infrastructure and say all of it’s bad then idk what to say for you.

            You can go from London to Edinburgh by car (412 miles) in 7.5 hrs or by train in 5.5 hrs.

            You can go from Richmond to Charleston by car (432 miles) in 6 hours or by train in 13.25 hrs.

        • Gabu@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Because you behave like a brainless, witless worm, which is much rarer in Europe

    • Discombobulated_Back@feddit.de
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      Hi, im 26 years old and i have the money to get a car and make enough money to Use the car. But i dont have one, i use every day the train to get to work. 5 min with bike to the trainstation 31 min with the train, 5 min on foot to my work place, 5 min back to the trainstation, 22 min back with train and 10-15 min with my bike home. With a car I would need 38 min (gmaps). I pay 49€ in month and can use bus or trai In whole Germany. With a car it would be 66km per day. The car of our family uses 6,5 L/ 100km 66km = 4,29L × 20 (workdays) =85,8L * 1,82 (price per liter fuel)= 155,61€ and that is only the fuel with out the tax for the car insurance and not the wear out and without the 2 year controll checkup. And with that I can say train is faster and cheaper for me so I don’t need a car.

          • rab@lemmy.ca
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            Tried that. If you want to rent for the weekend you waste a bunch of time picking up and dropping off the vehicle. And say you are using it for camping, you have to pack all your stuff that same day then unload everything before drop off. There are also restrictions as to where you can take rentals, like gravel roads are off limits. Just some examples

      • rab@lemmy.ca
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        Congrats for living somewhere where that’s viable

        Where I live in in Canada you can’t even expect the bus to show up at all, nevermind on time

    • iByteABit [he/him]@lemm.ee
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      Yeah, no. I have a car and I hate driving it. I hate others having cars and driving them. I hate public transport being ignored over car infrastructure leaving them completely impractical. I hate our cities being ruined in order to work around cars, when metros are underground, and trains are overground but take way less space since they can take in way more people and transfer them way faster. I hate car accidents being one of the leading causes of death in my country. Fuck cars

    • ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world
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      These people are ridiculous. They want to gaslight people who have to drive into thinking we’re bad people and when we call them out on the fact that there is no public transit infrastructure built they’re just like “well all people have to do is build the infrastructure!” Bitch where? And who? And how do we make them? And with what money? I’m so sick of hearing “you should drive a smart car because it makes sense for my DINK ass and I know what’s best”. My home is in an ocean of suburbia. They gonna just bulldoze a whole swath of homes to install a rail? They’ve been talking about installing a rail from DFW to Austin/Houston for the past 40 years and there was even room for it once upon a time. You can’t just say the magical solution is to just “build trains”. We don’t love our cars, these fuckcars people are just lunatics. As you point out the vast majority of them are almost certainly children. The rest are fortunate enough to have never experienced a place with poor public transit.

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
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      I didn’t. Even when I lived an hour away from my job, it was about as fast by train as driving, and I could spend that time productively or relaxing instead of concentrating on.

      If it takes twice as long without a car, that’s a problem that should be solved!

    • Gabu@lemmy.world
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      You’re a moron that never heard about other countries existing. It’s okay, you’ll probably learn about them when you enroll for 1st grade.

    • LucyLastic@sh.itjust.works
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      I’m 46, the parts of my life where I haven’t needed to use a car every day have been great for my physical and mental health … now I live too far from work I use a little 125 motorbike to commute, and it’s still much nicer than having to take a car. When I am forced to take a car, the one I have is small and economical.

      I didn’t start figuring this out until I was 30, maybe you need a few more years to mature enough to throw off the consumerist mindset?

    • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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      I have never had a commute longer than 40 min each way. I had a 5 minute commute once, too.

  • cyberpunk007@lemmy.world
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    I love how people just come up with this shit with their knowledge of their local area. Any train here requires driving to, and does not come and go frequently, and takes longer. Our infra is terrible.

    On the flip side, some places have awesome infra and I wish I had that. I’d prefer to pedal bike if I could. But where I’m at you’re very likely to be killed without bike lanes or sidewalks, and it would take hours to get anywhere important - IE work.

    • doktorseven@lemmy.world
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      Also mobility issues factor in. There is no better way for such people to get around. This anti-car movement is ableist.

      • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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        How many cars have you seen with step-free access?

        And besides, surely there exist no disabilities that inhibit people’s ability to operate a vehicle like a car, right?

      • Nobsi@feddit.de
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        Still no. You can stop claiming that now, you’ve been proven different many times already in all the other threads.

        • cyberpunk007@lemmy.world
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          This person has a point though. Typically most people can’t even afford to live where I live, and most of the jobs are 50Km away. The nearest bus stop is an hour and a half walk. Biking is dangerous since there are ditches and no sidewalks on either side and people typically drive 90Km/hr.

          And when you get to the bus loop, buses come every hour. Takes 3 transfers before you get to a train. Then you take a train to a bus. Then more walking.

          It’s 2.5 hours each way if you bike. 3.5 hours each way if you walk to the bus stop.

          If it snows, it’s a crapshoot. Sometimes the trains cease to function. Longest one way commute I’ve had on transit was 7 hours.

          I think some people just need to realize not everywhere is like Amsterdam and has a wicked bike lane and transit setup.