Russian President Vladimir Putin promised Friday to "immediately" order a ceasefire in Ukraine and start negotiations if Kyiv began withdrawing troops from the four regions annexed by Moscow in 2022 and renounced plans to join NATO. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejected what he called an ultimatum by Putin to surrender more territory.
Yeah, but what about what the US did somewhere else?! Yeah, that’s also bad, never said it wasn’t. Two wrong don’t make a right. And you saying it could’ve been worse is disgusting. Doesn’t change the facts. Also, ofc the infrastructure was less affected in a pretty much defenseless town raped and slaughtered by russians than in other places where there was actual combat. At least try and think for yourself, c’mon.
What the US does is worse, and it likely does it with the consent and material support of the country you live in.
But that isn’t the point I’m making. It’s that maximum pressure increases the likelihood of an unrestrained, Western-style strategy. Why would anyone want that for the people of Ukraine? You’re not a cold-hearted psychopath in the US State Department. You don’t want that, I wager. I think you’re looking for a fair outcome and are outraged by the unfairness and horror you see before you.
Bucha still exists and has people living in it, by the way. They have endured war, but the language you’re using makes me think you are under the impression that their intact infrastructure doesn’t matter because they are all “raped” or dead. I will tell you that it does matter. It is why they can live less horrible lives.
Well, yeah, if you’re the sort of person that thinks bucha was not that big of a deal because there’s people living there now, then you also believe that the us decides what happens in ukraine and it’s why those people are fighting. They’re us slaves dying for western imperialism. Ofc if we were arguing that, yeah I’d want the us to let the ukranians surrender and allow russia to regroup so they can find another reason a few years later to come back as they’ve been doing for the past 30 years.
Well, yeah, if you’re the sort of person that thinks bucha was not that big of a deal because there’s people living there now
It means that life is viable there. And, in actuality, there is clean water and electricity. This is not afforded to targets of US Empire. They get worse. And this is tacitly accepted, and likely with your country’s support, even while stories are told about Bucha.
then you also believe that the us decides what happens in ukraine and it’s why those people are fighting.
I honestly don’t know what this means. Who are “those people”? I can’t respond to this. I don’t blame you, communication is a two way street, but I don’t know what you mean.
They’re us slaves dying for western imperialism. Ofc if we were arguing that, yeah I’d want the us to let the ukranians surrender and allow russia to regroup so they can find another reason a few years later to come back as they’ve been doing for the past 30 years.
Ukrainians are entire people like any other. They are not simply slaves, though many are conscripted against their will. They are provided minimal training and sent to the front lines. There are men kidnapped and forced into conscription while their families and partners wail. Maybe this is what you are referring to?
Anyways, you are describing Russia as an inevitable revanchist. This discredits the history of Ukraine, of the regional battle that resulted in Euromaidan and the loss of Ukrainian sovereignty, why Crimea was annexed, etc. This is a simplistic view of geopolitics that does not account for external dynamics, namely relentless Western pressure, the violation of Minsk agreements, of policies that would be described as ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide if the designated enemy were doing it, right on Russia’s border against ethnic Russians by fascist Banderites. And with the coinciding threat to join NATO, it is absurd to entertain the pretense that this is just some Russia revanchist compulsion. It requires a deliberate ignorance of history.
I’m not sure why you chose 30 years, though. That coincides with the dismantling of the USSR, where Ukraine was sold off for parts and turned into the poorest country in Europe by Western capitalist powers. I’d think that runs contrary to your point.
Sorry I’m off work now so won’t waste my free time to reply to that. Bottom line is: I believe you’re repeating russian propaganda and since I’ve actually spoken to other Russians and even Ukranians affected by the war, and since I believe actions speak louder than words (Georgia, Transnistria, Chechnya, Ukraine, etc), I don’t believe a word you’re saying.
Please feel free to take your time in responding because you have clearly taken none to formulate this response. The thought-terminating cliches are you insulting your own intelligence, an excuse to dismiss what I said without needing to actually counter it.
I feel the need to tell you I’m not as stupid as you’re treating me. I’m sorry it’s not that easy for your rationalizations. Congratulations on knowing some Russians and Ukrainians. I also know Russians and Ukrainians. Though I also understand that they, being other complete and flawed humans, can share their own perspective colored by their own experiences and ideological wanderings. One of the Ukrainians I know is a sexual harasser. Shall I extrapolate this to my geopolitical analysis? This is such an unserious response, full of ego.
Anyways, please recover the courage of your convictions at your own leisure.
Yeah, but what about what the US did somewhere else?! Yeah, that’s also bad, never said it wasn’t. Two wrong don’t make a right. And you saying it could’ve been worse is disgusting. Doesn’t change the facts. Also, ofc the infrastructure was less affected in a pretty much defenseless town raped and slaughtered by russians than in other places where there was actual combat. At least try and think for yourself, c’mon.
What the US does is worse, and it likely does it with the consent and material support of the country you live in.
But that isn’t the point I’m making. It’s that maximum pressure increases the likelihood of an unrestrained, Western-style strategy. Why would anyone want that for the people of Ukraine? You’re not a cold-hearted psychopath in the US State Department. You don’t want that, I wager. I think you’re looking for a fair outcome and are outraged by the unfairness and horror you see before you.
Bucha still exists and has people living in it, by the way. They have endured war, but the language you’re using makes me think you are under the impression that their intact infrastructure doesn’t matter because they are all “raped” or dead. I will tell you that it does matter. It is why they can live less horrible lives.
Well, yeah, if you’re the sort of person that thinks bucha was not that big of a deal because there’s people living there now, then you also believe that the us decides what happens in ukraine and it’s why those people are fighting. They’re us slaves dying for western imperialism. Ofc if we were arguing that, yeah I’d want the us to let the ukranians surrender and allow russia to regroup so they can find another reason a few years later to come back as they’ve been doing for the past 30 years.
It means that life is viable there. And, in actuality, there is clean water and electricity. This is not afforded to targets of US Empire. They get worse. And this is tacitly accepted, and likely with your country’s support, even while stories are told about Bucha.
I honestly don’t know what this means. Who are “those people”? I can’t respond to this. I don’t blame you, communication is a two way street, but I don’t know what you mean.
Ukrainians are entire people like any other. They are not simply slaves, though many are conscripted against their will. They are provided minimal training and sent to the front lines. There are men kidnapped and forced into conscription while their families and partners wail. Maybe this is what you are referring to?
Anyways, you are describing Russia as an inevitable revanchist. This discredits the history of Ukraine, of the regional battle that resulted in Euromaidan and the loss of Ukrainian sovereignty, why Crimea was annexed, etc. This is a simplistic view of geopolitics that does not account for external dynamics, namely relentless Western pressure, the violation of Minsk agreements, of policies that would be described as ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide if the designated enemy were doing it, right on Russia’s border against ethnic Russians by fascist Banderites. And with the coinciding threat to join NATO, it is absurd to entertain the pretense that this is just some Russia revanchist compulsion. It requires a deliberate ignorance of history.
I’m not sure why you chose 30 years, though. That coincides with the dismantling of the USSR, where Ukraine was sold off for parts and turned into the poorest country in Europe by Western capitalist powers. I’d think that runs contrary to your point.
Sorry I’m off work now so won’t waste my free time to reply to that. Bottom line is: I believe you’re repeating russian propaganda and since I’ve actually spoken to other Russians and even Ukranians affected by the war, and since I believe actions speak louder than words (Georgia, Transnistria, Chechnya, Ukraine, etc), I don’t believe a word you’re saying.
You believe your history, I’ll believe mine.
Please feel free to take your time in responding because you have clearly taken none to formulate this response. The thought-terminating cliches are you insulting your own intelligence, an excuse to dismiss what I said without needing to actually counter it.
I feel the need to tell you I’m not as stupid as you’re treating me. I’m sorry it’s not that easy for your rationalizations. Congratulations on knowing some Russians and Ukrainians. I also know Russians and Ukrainians. Though I also understand that they, being other complete and flawed humans, can share their own perspective colored by their own experiences and ideological wanderings. One of the Ukrainians I know is a sexual harasser. Shall I extrapolate this to my geopolitical analysis? This is such an unserious response, full of ego.
Anyways, please recover the courage of your convictions at your own leisure.
Big words just to say “no, you!”. Nice try.
That is not an accurate summary of what I wrote. I invite you to take your time and formulate a real response.
I’m good, thanks. I’m not gonna change your mind and other people aren’t gonna bother to read all this anyway, so there’s really no point.